Large-scale superluminal motion in the quasar 3C273 R. J. Davis*, S. C. Unwin & T. W. B. Muxlow* * University of Manchester, Nuffield Radio Astronomy Laboratories, Jodrell Bank, Macclesfield, Cheshire SK11 9DL, UK California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, California 91125, USA THE quasar 3C273, one of the first discovered1, is optically the brightest example of a source with a one-sided jet. It was also the first object to display apparent superluminal motion on parsec scales2, a phenomenon attributed to relativistic effects on the appearance of a jet moving close to the line of sight3,4. The same explanation allows an intrinsically similar 'counter-jet', moving at high speed in the opposite direction, to be dimmed to invisibility. We have made observations at 1.7 GHz, using very-long-baseline interferometry with a global network of 16 radiotelescopes, resulting in a high-dynamic-range map of the jet with a ratio of peak brightness to r.m.s. noise level of 16,000:1. We fail to see a counter-jet, a result which is just barely consistent with the standard model of a superluminal jet. The jet extends out to 220 pc, and some models5,6 require that the relativistic bulk flow should continue along its entire length. Comparison with an earlier image shows that superluminal motion extends out to at least 120 pc, three times farther than previously noted7. Because different components emerge with different velocities7,8, a third epoch of observations is needed to determine if any deceleration has occurred. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v354/n6352/abs/354374a0.html
Here the details visible on jets such as large knots and blobs appear to be moving at 8 times the speed of light.
There is another effect which entails the following. When you look towards superclusters of galaxies, the photons in their direction appear to be blueshifted. This happens for instance to the microwave background radiation. I.e. you will notice a blueshift in the MB in the direction of galactic clusters and superclusters as contrasted with MB eminating from an empty space. The standard relativistic explanation is this. When the photon enters space around a supercluster, it's supposed to fall into a gravitational well (gravitational space curvature) which provides the photon with an extra energy inducing a blueshift. When the photon exits the supercluster, it's supposed to return this extra gained energy and reassume the original wavelength. But due to the effects of the mysterious dark energy which causes space to stretch, the overall space occupied by the supercluster is greater when the photon exited the supercluster than when it entered it, hence the gravitational field is weaker when the photon exits and hence it is forced to give up less energy upon exiting than the energy it gained upon entering the supercluster. However, the WMAP has demonstrated the overall gravity of the universe does not cause space to curve in any way. The omega total which is the average density of everything there is in the universe divided by the critical density is 1.0. Which means that space is perfectly Eucladian and flat. So one would deduct this provides evidence that gravity is not at all a phenomena created by the curvature of space, but rather it's got some particle basis. So let's assume the photon enters a supercluster medium, and its speed is adjusted according to the motion of the medium possibly due to interaction with fields of charged particles in this medium. There is as a matter of fact something called a Sunyaev-Zel'dovich effect which explains a blueshift observed in photons originating behind a cluster or within a cluster due to accelerative effect on photons by electrons in intergalactic medium. The Sunyaev-Zel'dovich effect has been successfully applied to explain a wide-range of blueshift phenomena on photons including the microwave background radiation, yet with regard to the latter, the preference is still to seek relativistic explanatory models. Why?
In any case, the S-Z effect induces photon acceleration by a process where photons need to be absorbed and then re-emitted by electrons and hence the re-emitted photon speed is reset relative to the electron's speed. But can a photon's relative velocity be modified without getting absorbed and re-emitted? The photon itself is not affected by things like magnetic fields as it does not produce magnetic and electric fields of its own outside of its wave function, but its speed does seem to be set relative to the motion of the medium it enters. And galactic interspace is filled with an ultra low density hyper-velocity medium, so hot it produces X-rays. Upon entering a medium from vacuum, if the incident photon's velocity would exceed c by a certain amount relative to this medium, it would interact with this medium at much higher frequencies than what it experienced at the emitter, and hence convert into particles. But what if the incident photon and the medium were moving relative to one another at less than c? Would the photon's velocity receive a boost?
There is another experiment investigating particles attaining superluminal velocities. I suppose I should say that I enjoy chaos and shaking up the status quo. Not to be a jerk, no I enjoy such things because they often lead to fresh exciting discoveries! As an amateur astronomer I was and am highly interested in the not quite validated Italian experiment that has revealed evidence that fundamental particles i.e. neutrinos can travel faster than light! Other researchers are careful about the findings, but if it stands further inspection, the finding would overturn the most basic rule of contemporary physics. Of course I am speaking of Einstein’s theory later validated, that nothing travels faster than 299,792,458 meters per second, i.e. the speed of light in a vacuum Very interesting! If that experiment can be validated it may give us a toe in the door of what’s wrong with the current physics we use to describe everything from the inner workings of a star to a better theory of quantum gravity, the big bang and who lit the fuse to that original ‘explosive’ event. reva
On a large scale, space is flat (or more accurately, a curvature was not detected, it may still be very small). But on small scales, it is not. So the notion that gravity does not cause curvature of space surely cannot be drawn from the absence of cosmological large-scale curvature.
According to Einstein, the only thing moving faster than the speed of light is Oprah grabbing for the last ham sandwich! Instead of 8 times the SOL, is it possible it has something to do with other dimensions or parallel universes or something we don't yet understand?
Ok, not to burst anyone's bubble, the eight times the speed of light is an optical illusion because the jet is moving with the line of site (of we the observer). Its not just I speaking most astronomers think that apparent velocities greater than the velocity of light are optical illusions. So there is no contradiction with the theory of special relativity. Don't kill the messenger guys! ; [PDF] Radio Galaxies High resolution observations of radio galaxies often ... jila.colorado.edu/~pja/astr3830/lecture29.pdf File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View Physical extent can be large: typically several hundred kpc, though much smaller ... Explain apparent superluminal motion as an optical illusion caused by the ... reva
Well maybe in theory. What relative to our discussion (particles etc) is 100% massless at all times? Even neutrinos and photons have some mass. Photons are said to be massless however, that comment is a figure of speech that physicists use to describe a photon's particle-like properties are described by the language of special relativity. In reality Photons do have non-rest mass if we are being brutally specific. reva
RevAnarchist: As an amateur astronomer I was and am highly interested in the not quite validated Italian experiment that has revealed evidence that fundamental particles i.e. neutrinos can travel faster than light! The lastest results suggest that is not the case. This has been a yes-no-yes-no quandry so perhaps, the next set of results will bring us another yes. See also: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/16/faster-than-light-neutrinos-cern_n_1353973.html
Granny wonderin' how dey s'posed to find it if ya can't see it?... Quasars illustrate dark energy's roller coaster ride 13 November 2012 - BOSS data is acquired by the 2.5m Sloan telescope at Apache Point Observatory in the US
I thought this was settled science. http://newsworldwide.wordpress.com/2012/05/06/satellite-confirms-that-we-live-in-a-space-time-warp/
If this dark stuff is omnipresent, meaning it's outside of my office window, between me and the Sun, between solar systems, beyond the known Universe, even between me and the beer in the frig, it does not behave the same in all areas? Is Earth moving farther from the Sun? Is our Solar system moving farther from an adjacent solar system? What can cause everything to be moving away from a singular point; explosion, dark stuff or other stuff expanding, something outside the Universe which is pulling? I'm a science idiot but it seems to me that matter is either being 'pushed' or 'pulled' and the dark stuff just fills the voids. Fascinating...
OK, so gravity pulls the photon more on the way in than it does on the way out. Does the reason even matter? Whether gravity is space curvature or something else, would not the effect be the same?
