Susan Collins Unveils a Gun-Control Compromise : No-Fly-No-Buy

So you are afraid to put your money where your mouth is. Got it. Im not. Ill even up the ante

 

Freedom of movement is an essential liberty. It wasn't put into the Constitution because it's totally obvious. Not all Constitutional rights are enumerated, for example, the right to privacy. (see the 9th amendment :
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.")


Without due process, taking rights away from anybody is unconstitutional. Everybody in the U.S. except for diplomats are granted any constitutional right not specifically listed for citizens. The Constitution differentiates between people (or persons) and citizens for a reason.

 

Not necessarily. It's ammunition that is generally designed for certain purposes. Some ammunition is designed specifically to avoid death. Some is designed to punch through armor, and some for stopping power. Some is designed to maximize lethality. In earlier times, non-lethal ammunition was favored because the cost of caring for the wounded in warfare weighed heavily on civilized countries, whereas a death carried little cost.

For a hunter, there are other important factors. When we hunted snakes, we'd use a .22 cartridge called a "rat-shot". Great for blowing a snake's head off (and probably the heads of rats). Not likely to kill a person if you shot them with it. So, lethal to snakes, not likely lethal to humans.

A gun is a tool, and quite useful for self-defense, defense of property, defense against critters, hunting critters for food, and recreation. There is nothing moral or immoral about the object, other than what voodoo you assign to it, or demonic fantasy you hold about someone's possession of one.

 

Then arrest them. People can go on the No Fly list for things as simple as an email criticizing the administration. I don't want rights to be able to be taken away based on whims of the bureaucracy. Rights can only be taken away by due process (judicial actions).

 

You mean like what, pre-crime? Thought crime?

(*)(*)(*)(*) happens. It sucks when it happens to you or affects you, but creating a totalitarian system to protect you from (*)(*)(*)(*) will likely turn out far worse for everyone in the long run.

 

Same principle--using wartime powers to unconstituionally remove basic rights. We aren't talking Japanese slave camps, we're talking the U.S. internment camps for Japanese-Americans, which were immoral and just plain wrong.

 

None of that is no fly no buy. Nor are all patrons intoxicated. Notice he says drinking with a firearm. He does not say simply being in a club. You need to read better

 

Truthfully, what I'm advocating, Ken, is PROFILING! The intelligent thing for us to do is to develop a template of what radical Muslims are like, and then focus on them. The effort couldn't mathematically be 100% accurate or 100% effective, but anything would be better than this idiotic, half-assed nonsense of the FBI investigating a Muslim for month after month, only to take him off the "watch" list.

I'm not talking about some kind of big roundup of Muslims reminiscent of how the Nazis rounded up the Jews. I'm talking about an intelligently-constructed profile of what terrorists look like under examination, what they do, who they associate with, what's preached in the Mosques they go to, how they behave, etc. Otherwise, we'll just continue to go right on having one catastrophe after another, like San Bernardino and Orlando! And if these Islamo-Nazi terrorists become better armed and better organized, the nightmare scenarios will only be much, much worse....

 

Add $500,000 compensation + legal fees for anyone erroneously put on the list and the person putting them there fired immediately.

 

As I expressed earlier in the thread, as a businessman I profile. I look for clues in people's actions or lives that suggests they are near the parameters of my average customer. I focus my marketing dollar on them.

Profiling for Mr. Mateen: a series of interactions with law enforcement, heads up calls from friends and coworkers, the transfer of assets, spending down of available cash, travel to suspect foreign lands....

We are building a profile. I will bet the above actions match others that have done the same. Add to this the signals traffic and other actions known and this was near predictable.

Cheers





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don't be fooled and believe these watch lists are only to profile muslims, as prejudiced as that is to want to begin with.

republicans are naturally more freedom loving that democrats, don't use prejudice as a reason to deny freedom.

 

In reality we can remove race from Profiling. We are very predictable we humans. We act in very predetermined ways.

How I learned this visually: as a real estate broker I've been in thousands of homes. People regardless of race or ethnicity set their homes up the same way and their personal habits follow the same patterns. People drop their keys in one of three places, kitchen counter or hook, by a table near the front door or on a bedroom dresser. People keep their medication / first aid in one of three places, kitchen cupboard right side of the sink, in the hall closet or in the medicine cabinet in the master bath. People hide their spare key in one of three places (redacted).

We are all very predictable even though we think we are unique. Just have to watch patterns.

Cheers



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With this compromise, only the rich will be able to get their 2A rights back in court. The poor can't afford to risk the possibility of losing and being stuck with thousands in legal bills. I make good money and don't know if I would be able to afford a good lawyer and not be totally broke if I lose my case in court over some technicality.

 

Rounding up the Japanese in WW2 was the right thing to do then. Profiling muslims is the right thing to do now.

 

As long as the person placed on the no fly list or the The Special Selectee List is notified and given a chance to correct being placed on the list by error. I have no problem with it. But when both lists are to be kept secret and anyone placed on the list is not told or notified even when they ask, that I have a real huge problem with. I especially like the reimbursement clause.

 

"No one thinks that people should go into a nightclub drinking and carrying firearms," said Chris Cox, the executive director of the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action. "That defies common sense. It also defies the law.”

Do you agree with the above statement?

 

If they are drinking? It is already against the law to carry while intoxicated.

 

The progressives are trying to circumvent the 2nd Amendment by placing people on no fly lists using basically bureaucracies in an attempt to ban guns.

Their little tyrannical circumvention is quite clear.

The same people that are calling for this action called the TEA party a bunch of terrorists........ Think about that.

 

Look, no matter how much you hate Muslims, no matter how much you believe we're being swamped by Jihadis, no matter how many times you read screeching headlines in the Daily Mail the simple fact is that there is no problem with the vast majority of Muslims in Britain. How do I know? Because I live here among them and you do not. I could, if I were that stupid, suggest that America is riddled with lunatic Christians bombing abortion clinics and murdering their employees, but using one or two examples in order to demonize the rest of your religious folk would be pretty idiotic, wouldn't you agree? I hope you take my point.

 

WTF? Most of these detainees were rounded up arbitrarily or turned in by some guy low-life greedy for the bounty offered by the US; they weren't even fighters!. No charge, no trial, no access to the law or legal representation. Most didn't even know why they were picked up. And you want to shoot these men out of hand? This is how Nazis behaved. By the way, who decided it was "legal" to shoot them?

 

You are seriously suggesting that an armed drunk is safe to be around? Is a drunk pilot safe to fly with? Tell me you're kidding, please.

 

So what, exactly, is a hand gun designed to do, and where should the efficiently and consistently shot projectile be aimed at? If they aren't designed to kill then it would be far cheaper to arm your cops with BB guns. Perhaps you might also explain why gun ranges have targets representing humans to shoot at, with areas of lethality clearly demarcated on them.

 

I hereby nominate Pollycy to Head of FBI. This thing starts at the head, we need someone competent at one of our departments to do the job. Pollycy 2016.

 

Seconded. At minimum we'll get a laughable meme at the end of each policy statement!

Cheers
Labour

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This bill, like all the others that have been shot down, is nothing more then a knee jerk reaction to a tragic event. It allows the politicians to pat themselves on the back, and claim they made the country safer. The reality though is that they would have passed a bill that changed nothing except to stomp on the Constitutional Rights of 2700 citizens. Further, the bill proposed by Senator Collins will never stand up to a challenge in court. Why? Because, it puts the restrictions of rights before the due process. That's like arresting someone for robbing a gas station before the individual actually did it. Then forcing the individual to stand trial for the crime that never took place.

The bill proposed by Senator Collins would require anyone on two watch lists to be banned from buying a gun. Then after the individual has had his background check denied, he/she can get a lawyer and appeal the denial. Then if they win the case, they can get reimbursed for attorney fees. What will really happen is that these individuals will appeal the denial. Then when they win, they will get together and file a class action lawsuit against the US government for denying their Constitutional rights without due process. The due process is supposed to come before the restriction of rights. Not after.

Now, compare that to the bill backed by the NRA. That bill would have suspended the gun sale for 48 hours, and require federal prosecutors to present evidence in court that this individual poses a threat before the sale is denied. This bill would have accomplished the same thing as Collins bill would have, but it would have placed due process ahead of the denial.

One other fact that can't be overlooked is that none these bills would have prevented any of the terror events.