The birther thread to end all birther threads

nope. minor v happersett had exactly nothing to do with citizenship.

I'm positive that you are making up that you talk to "lawyers next door" because no lawyer is that stupid. besides orly and apuzzo that is.

 

i think sfjeff already said he was... sorry wonki mark

 

hey rahl where you been ?. gettin in a little early christmas shopping ? good thing you're here, wong is being obstreperous.

 

Try not to get confused JEFF, this is not a rocket science...

We know for a fact that Obama was born Kenyan citizen (as well as US citizen through his mother). He said so himself through his unbiased factcheck site.

Through the same factcheck site we also know, Obama remained to be Kenyan citizen well into his manhood, at least until he was 21. Therefore, from birth and until at least the age 21 Obama remained dual national.

These facts are undisputed, right?

http://www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

Follow me now, JEFF; this may come as a shock to you... sit-down, maybe? I am quoting from our own State Department site:

...dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries...

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

So, we have now established that Obama was born dual national, and remained dual national until the age 21. We have also established that until at least the age 21, Obama owed allegiance to both USA and Kenya.

Ponder on this JEFF, and when you're ready, I'll take you bit further...

 

Okay- so you think that the voters were tricked- how?

Barack Obama wrote two books, and had on his website that his father was a Kenyan.

did he write two books ? why is the story wrong ?

So how were the voters tricked?

because the story was wrong

And your only answer for the voters is that they 'were tricked'- what about everyone else listed below?


I have repeatedly asked you to explain how you reconcile your new theory with the fact that almost 70 million citizens voted for Obama, the Electoral College elected him, Congress confirmed him without a single objection- not even Michelle- and Chief Justice Roberts swore him in- were they all wrong? How is that possible?

it just is

Dance like a ballerina again Wash.

You claimed the voters were tricked- tricked! somehow all 70 million of them just weren't able to tell that Obama's father was Kenyan- even though he wrote two books about it, and it was on his website.

And you answer on why everyone else in the whole U.S. has the wrong definition of NBC? - "it just is"

Why do I even bother. You just throw innuendo, speculation and Birther propaganda around, and when challenged you just dance away.

 

So now you agree, that a foreign government can unilaterally impose citizenship on someone without their consent?

That is what we have been trying to tell you all along.

And since a foreign government can impose citizenship on someone without their consent- if your new definition of Natural born citizen were to be implemented, any tinpot dictator could have veto power over any Presidential candidate they chose to.

Glad we are finally in agreement.

 

except now you and you know who are at odds. could we use your little plan to ditch 0bama ?

 

i don't know guys... you say no, jeff says yes. you say minor left no precedent, implying that wong van ark did leave a precedent for presidential eligibility. if you guys can't even agree, it makes it hard for us to convince you. do you think the supreme court thinks these things ?

 

No JEFF, no, try to stay focused, will yea? No once again, no foreign government can unilaterally impose citizenship on someone without their consent - only honorary citizenship, which is not the same. And I've never said otherwise, although you and Wong would still call me a lier - thats what you do

Care to answer my questions now, JEFF, or are they too toxic?

 

If this is true, then you agree that Obama has never held either Kenyan or British citizenship, since they were unilaterally imposed on him without his consent.

 

I cannot help myself but to scream, forgive me:

But of course Obama was involuntarily and unilaterally made Kenyan citizen - each and every country do that to the children born by their citizen...

Come on Wong; usually you're a bit sharper that that...

 

are "imposed, unilateral and involuntary citizens" some new liberal working definitions of natural born ? don't forget enforcement. chavez would have a hard time in this country, people would see him coming.

 

So you agree that any country can involuntarily make a person a citizen of their country- but now you say only if is to children born by their citizen?

You are just making this up now aren't you?

Because I can show you examples of countries which automatically make persons citizens of their country even if they are not born of citizens of that country.

Frankly, any country can make up whatever citizenship rules it wants to. The UK could change it laws and make every left handed person in the world a UK citizen- if they wanted to.

This is what Birthers always want to ignore. A foreign country can do what it likes to those residing in its country- and can impose any citizenship rules it wants to. We cannot tell Japan what its citizenship rules can be, and Japan cannot tell us what ours will be. Japan cannot strip a U.S. citizen of his or her U.S. citizenship- even if Japanese law says it can.

And this is the reason that Birthers argument about their newly invented NBC definition is so ignorant.

Birthers want to cede to a foreign power, the control over who can be U.S. President. They believe foreign law supercedes American law.

All just to push their agenda to remove Barack Obama from office.

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgQwgUwlxBw"]Why Obama's 'Birth Certificate' Is A Fraud - YouTube[/ame]

this is really good... i think the announcer is frank.

 

Screaming would be the most reasonable thing you have done in this thread.

You have whirled like a Dervish between claiming that no country can make anybody their citizen involuntarily, and then claiming that yes they can and yes they did with Obama.

The fact that you directly contradict yourself every three posts would be a good reason for you to scream.

The rest of us merely find it a good reason to laugh at you.

 

Please do show me an example.

 

Again, "no country can make anybody their citizen involuntarily" except making them a honorary citizen. and yes, every country make newborn children citizen of their country if they're born by their citizens. That's what they did to Obama, that's what they did to me and that's what they, most likely, did to you. Which part of my paragraph do you have problems comprehending again?

The laugh's on you, believe me - this is all a child's stuff, easily understood by anyone who's smarter than a fifth-grader

 

Sure- Italy.

You are considered an Italian citizen even if your grandparent was a citizen.

Now, just as Obama would have had to apply to the UK or Kenya to have that citizenship recognized and to obtain a passport, Italian American's have to apply but the Italian Government has automatically made citizens anyone born of Italian citizens- or born of grandparents who were citizens.

Once again- you are assumed an Italian citizen, whether you act or not. Just like Obama. However, unlike Obama, that italian citizenship doesn't expire.

Once again- if the U.S. were to adopt the Birthers xenophobic NBC standard, any foreign country would have veto power over who could be U.S. President.

Like the Soviet Union could have pre-emptorly made Reagan a Soviet citizen, just to prevent him from being eligible to be President.

Birthers are willing to cede U.S. sovereignty to foreign governments in their quest to remove Barack Obama from office.

 

And those two claims are mutually contradictory... because the latter is an example of what your former claim insists cannot happen.

 

shows how (*)(*)(*)(*)ed up italy is, no wonder they're going under.

 

I believe we are not being told things about Obama's citizenship and are being led on. From what I have been pointed to is that Obama still remains a British subject to this day and that he was born with an allegiance to a foreign sovereignty. In other words, his birth was governed by a foreign entity, a country we fought for our independence. I can't imagine the founders wanting a commander in chief to be born with a allegiance to the very nation we had been at war with. This is why Obama retains his British citizenship to this day.


"When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom's dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.'s children:

http://www.uniset.ca/naty/BNA1948.htm
British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth."

So Obama has British Citizenship at the time of birth, that is a given. Did he gain citizenship to Kenya? Yes - via Chapter VI, Section 87(2):

"(2) Every person who, having been born outside Kenya, is on
11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or
a British protected person shall, if his father becomes, or would but for
his death have become, a citizen of Kenya by virtue of subsection (1),
become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963."

But did becoming a Kenyan Citizen terminate British Citizenship? We look into the Kenyan Constitution and find - NO, it did not. See Chapter VI, Section 95(1):

"95. (1) Every person who, under this Constitution or an Act of
Parliament, is a citizen of Kenya or who, under any law for the time
being in force in a country to which this section applies, is a citizen
of that country shall, by virtue of that citizenship, have the status of a
Commonwealth citizen."


Obama has never renounced his British Citizenship gained at birth. He never 'automatically' lost it, even when Kenya became independent. He isn't eligible under these circumstances according to the facts laid out. This has been confirmed to me in a email sent to me by two Constitutional/Maritime attorneys who deal with Admiralty laws in my office building who I am offshore fishing buddies with. They have plenty of experience dealing with Common law of other countries. In other words, they have handled citizenship cases. I trust their judgement and their reputation precedes them.