The Carbon Tax is a SCAM - austerity measures incognito

Some people on here have been so suckered (greens style) in with cleaning up the world (the carbon tax) they have their blinkers on and refuse to budge even though the evidence is overwhelming.

You guys are wrong and i suggest you take of your blinkers and see it for what it is, forget about party politics or you will remain blind forever.

Julia is always mixing the truth with lies and she has sold herself and all of us over to the financial terrorists the central banks that run the economy of the whole world.

Well i dont know about you lot that believe all this malarkey but a democracy is run by the government of the day and not corporations or central banks.

Look at what the central banks are doing to countries in Europe and soon the all mighty USA, they own everything dont be fooled by the vale, they hide behind companies but when you get down to the nitty gritty its them that run the show.

When Keating floated the dollar (what a w@nker) which was on parity with the $US it dropped the value of our dollar to half that of the green back.

These business companies (owned by central banks) then waltzed into Australia and bought up our utilities and everything else our dumb governments (traitors) ended up selling to them for half price.

Rememeber what they promised ooohhh competiton will make everything cheaper, what a whole lot of lies that was, who of you have had any of your utilities bills reduced? I bet not even one, and judging by the sounds of things they are going to increase drastically.

Now if these people that promised us cheaper energy back then are running the carbon tax (ETS) what do you thing will happen with carbon credit farming, FFS look at Europe and how corrupt their ETS system is, thats the system we are joining.

If it wasn't for the mining boom Australia would be right there with Portugal, Ireland, Spain maybe not Greece i thin they are too far gone to have any hope.

Yeah thats right this IMF run by the central bank of America (private company owned by Goldman Sachs JP morgan etc etc) in other words bankers would be initiating austerity measures for Australia too after all Australia owes $200 billion dollars do you think we would be let of the hook.

If Greece owes $400 or $500 billion then we are well on the way right??!!

The only thing that keeps our heads above water is the mining boom, which ofcourse Julia wants to put an end to with her carbon tax.

But the IMF and the central bankers are smart they have indeed given us austerity measures through the carbon tax soon to be an ETS, they couldn't do it any otherway.

Like i have said before Kevin Rudd wasn't listening BUT who wasn't he listening to?

When he came back from stockholme he said the world needs an ETS but now is not the right time for Australia, who wasn't he listening to??

Then bam he was gone Julia came in promised she wouldn't but she did!

Julia has been lieing to us ever since she has become PM.

Some of her lies are,

Well Julia the science isn't in because their are 3 times as more scientists saying the data is inconclusive than there is scientists saying it is.

Bullocks 80% of Australians are against the carbon tax.

Thanks Julia we all know that, ever since the moon crashed into the Earth and beyond there will always be climate change until the end, the moon draws further from the Earth every year of course their will be climate change, the sun changes with hot spots and solar winds of course there will be climate change etc etc.

Australia produces 1.5% of all AGW if we did succed in reducing our emmissions our total contribution to reduce the Earth heating up would be 0.00000000054 celcius.

To get this reduction we will be forking out $1462 million dollars per annum until 2050, to the UN, wall street and the central banks, now doesn't this sound like madness to you.

Why not spend that money here right in Australia cleaning up our act, why does it have to be a part of the European ETS, i sure most Europeans like us but they have too many problems of their own to even think about us.

Well what can i say about that little (BIG) phurfy, what a lier!
So we will be penalised for using our own coal and gas, oil etc while our compeditors will not, THANK YOU JULIA the worst PM in our history.

Yeah right i'll still be waiting for that one, when i'm an old geeza.

And there are many more!!

How can anyone in their right mind not think the carbon tax is a scam.

 

I'm sorry dude. We don't want to (*)(*)(*)(*) your country over, at least the people don't. But really what alternative is there to Central Banking? Every other idea floated is straight out of the Stone Ages.

They want this (*)(*)(*)(*) in America too and we're fighting tooth and nail to try and stop it, and even when we win the votes the Executive Branch just goes and does what it wants anyway and because they have the backing of a very vocal minority they can get away with it.

Greens aren't just screwing up Australia, they are trying to screw us too.

I live in a Coal State and we rely on Coal for just about every bit of power in Ohio. In fact my hometown has it's own coal plant which allows it to have utilities on average 25% cheaper than surrounding communities. A carbon tax would destroy my State economy within a couple years and we here in Ohio share roughly the same quality of life as in Australia.

So I know what you are worried about and agree 100%. If there was a better alternative than Stone Age economics I'm all ears.

 

Both posters have made significant points, the OP, outlining some of Gillard`s most obvious lies will be ignored by the CCC sheeple. It bemuses me how people who support the scam, can actually deny that coal mining will be affected if their measures are implemented. This alone demonstrated the gullibility of certain types of people.

 

Anything would be better.

The present system is destroying the Earth's surface and affecting just about
all life on the planet.

The Dollar is mightier than the Earth - Yeah right

The Earth will always win in any game of destruction.

You still wanna play?

How about letting me print the money?
Just pay for the printing and I won't charge you interest - I Promise

We could call the new currency - "People's Promise" or "PP's"

Put any value you like on it, what the heck.
Someone will figure out how to screw it out of you.

What we have here, is an attitude problem.

I'm serious. We have all the resources, technology and manpower we need
to fix things up in a couple generations, we just have bad attitudes.

Hmm, Did the UN ban war yet?

Maybe freshening the air with a Carbon Scheme is more important

 

So how do you propose reducing emissions to minimise climate change?

 

We DON'T for now. We put it off, stop acting like this is an immediate threat to civilization and we're all going to die tomorrow if we don't lower humanities carbon footprint.

The technology just isn't there, and even if the entire globe poured in trillions adn trillions of dollars it still won't be there for another couple decades at least.

The material science just isn't there right now. We don't have the storage capacity and we don't have the generational capacity necessary to replace even 1/100th of our fossil fuel usage. It's a Quixote like pursuit of a Green Unicorn.

You people are trying to force a change before our technology and society are ready for it and it will destroy the entire Western Economy in the face of the stiffest competition it has ever faced in the form of the Asian Hive Mind.

Don't be fooled by China, they are liars and propagandists and they are losing money on their green energy programs right and left but they are able to cover it up. Their debt to GDP ratio is estimated by economists to be 80% and no one really knows because the Chinese are opaque and keep everything hidden but what they want us to see. The entire enterprise is an illusion of world class, David Copperfield style.

Greens have to realize that their dreams of a green world are just that for now.. dreams. There is no "fast track" to Green energy.

 

Hi Bugs

I know this question isn't directed at me but i want to add my 2 cents.

How can we clean up our act hell with direct action here in Australia, dont need to send billions to foreign overseas institutions.

The government will force the BIG polluters to clean up their act.

Just like they forced the oil companies here in Australia to reduce the sulphur content in petrol from 10% TO 6%.

How can this be achieved you ask, well by forcing the big polluters to adopt the latest technologies in cleaning up their act.

Things like,

1. Fabric filter bags
2. Electro static precipitators
3. Scrubbers
4. Carbon sequestration

If we updated to the latest models we would drastically reduce our carbon footprint to a much better degree than this scam of a carbon tax could ever do.

Do the big polluters want a hand, yeah sure our government can help them, say the government puts up 30% of the cost of this upgrade and retro fit.

A much much better program than sending out billions of tax payer dollars to foreign companies and wall street for ever and a day.

I tell you we have been sold out, the impact will be felt very soon too.

And the our carbon foot print will only increase.

So if we're still around i will certainely remind of this.

And bugs lets not forget that AGW is one of the biggest phurpies that we have been fed thus far.

 

"Don't act now"? Give me an exact date of when to act and exactly what action to take... The reality is that NOTHING is really getting done now anyway because it's one retarded political argument. By the time anything substantial happens it will be time, but at the rate of argument and glacial speed of action, we have to start now.

Scientists with the facts arguing with laymen who aren't arguing about the facts of the scientists, they are just concerned with their quality of life. Fair enough, but the scientists are actually concerned with the same issue, it's just too complicated for the laymen to understand. The laymen appears fixated with only what they can see with their own eyes directly in front of them. Unfortunately the laymen forgets that scientists have made their material world and they deserve some credit. Your computer - developed by scientists, the internet - scientists, the materials of your pants - scientists, your medicine - scientists, the paint on your walls - scientists. Almost every freaking thing you own has passed through the hands and minds of scientists before it has got to you. And now you don't believe them, suddenly they are all trying to trick everyone?

There will always be some crisis excuse not to act. The problem is just going to get worse the longer it is put off. It is going to get more expensive the longer it is put off. Other economic problems will be caused by putting off action, such as running out of coal and having no replacement.

I actually work developing solar technology and the timeframe for DSSC technology we have is about 4 years, probably about $50 more million in development of our product. They are some real numbers on real technology. Are you talking about nuclear fusion? Be specific and make some effort in qualifying your broad statements.

I used to live in South Australia and 20% of it's power comes from wind. Must be green unicorns blowing the fans..

"Force change before technology and society are ready for it"? That's never happened. Technology either keeps up or there is no change.

This claim you must reference! What "economists"? The truth is any debit China has comes from lending money to the rest of the world. Chinese people save money like no-one else. Their green programs must work or they will be doomed in the microcosm of China.

Yeah there is, you throw minds and money at it, like any technology you want done quick. I was unemployed 2 years ago when I could have been advancing technology (I have a PhD in electrochemistry). Lots of unemployed / underemployed scientists who could be put to better use if the opportunity was there.

 

The price on Aussie whingeing? $3.50. That's the amount the cost of a domestic Aussie airfare will raise. If that means that people will have to stop reading the newspaper in the airport whilst waiting for their flight to Queensland for their dirty weekend, then I'm all for the Carbon Tax.

 

The carbon tax will be more than just $3.50 on an air fare dude, and then what about all the hidden costs that come that??????

 

There is no need to tell lies.

No one has said "we're all going to die tomorrow if we don't lower humanities carbon footprint"

What is obvious though is that it will be much cheaper to find solutions sooner rather than later.

THe problem is not going away. Closing your eyes and pretending it will, while making things worse is really, really dumb

Don't be silly.

Solar thermal generation with storage is operating now. It is not rocket science. To make electricity - all you need to do is make water hot. It is not hard.
http://www.torresolenergy.com/TORRESOL/gemasolar-plant/en
http://www.solarreserve.com/project-CrescentDunes.html

Please learn something about this subject before posting nonsense like this.

 

Will not stop CO2 emissions

Will not stop CO2 emissions

Will not stop CO2 emissions

Does not actually work.

Or we could just stop using carbon emitting technologies.
It is a bit of a no brainer question

And the truth is -you don't even understand the problem.


You further opinions are not required.

 

Hi Bugs

Yes you are correct fabric filter bags and eletro static precipitators will not stop Co2.

But Co2 isn't the only thing that comes out of coal fired power station flues now is it bugs, or do you believe Bob Brown and Ju-Liar that when we can arrest the amount of Co2 that is emitted all our pollution problems will be solved, take the blinkers of champ.

What about flyash which is roughly about 30% of the mass of the coal, would you like communities living in close proximaty to be covered in soot?

Hence we have Fabric filter bags and electro static precipitators.

Bugs maybe you should find out first before you sprook about anything.

Scrubbing thats Co2 scrubbing does work and is available, as a matter of fact scrubbing can be used on most gases, you really flopped on that one.

And who says carbon sequestration doesn't work was it Bob Brown or Ju-Liar that told you that one, just keep listening to them bugs they will lead you down the graden path mate.

Sorry bugs but Co2 isn't the only substance we have to deal with when we are talking about cleaning up the Earth and our act, so yeah until you take of your party blinkers and see past your parties Co2 obsession and the world for what it is then maybe its your opinion that is irrelevant.

 

Really? Not according to the airfare companies.

Offset by the fact that the majority of low to middle income households will be compensated. Also, the majority of households will only expect to see a rise in the cost of living around the mark of $9.90 per week (again, this will either be partly, completely or over compensated). Remember, the tax isn't on people, it's on 500 high-polluting companies. The compensation isto guard against costs those companies might pass on to their customers.

 

We'll see i doubt it very much because the carbon tax is a GST on energy and to top it all off most of the money will be going to foreign insterests.

You see just in case you dont know its going to hit the primary source then the middle man then the retailer and then finally you and me.

$3.50 is what the airlines want you to pay on top of what you will alreday be paying.

You see if you are already paying for it through utility bills and you catch a taxi and he slaps a $3.00 PAY AS YOU GO CARBON TAX aren't you forking out more than this mythical $9.90.

What about the butcher the greengrocer etc etc etc.

Willt their prices not rise in addition to your utility bills?

You must be on a good wicket champ.

 

No, it's not a 'GST on energy'. The GST was a 10% tax on almost all purchaseable items. The Carbon Tax is a tax on 500 companies. That's a major difference right there. I also find it funny that people like to equate the Carbon Tax with the GST, because as far as I'm aware, the GST has been a good measure with no major demonstrable negative effects. Is that what you're saying the Carbon Tax will be like?

Some companies will do that, yes. Other companies will undertake cost saving measures with the money that the government will be giving them in order to purchase energy efficient and green technology. Companies that find and utilise these cost effective strategies will be saving money, and not have to pass on the costs to the consumer. If they don't pass costs onto the consumer, then their product will be cheaper and, therefore, more appealing than the products of the competitors who pass on the costs to consumers.

No, $3.50 is how much airline tickets will rise under a Carbon Tax. The only thing that that will be on top of is the airline ticket, unless you're suggesting we shouldn't have to pay for airline tickets .

Paying for it with utility bills? Find ways to reduce them, like solar panels, rain-water tanks, turning off lights when you leave a room, etc, etc.

Paying for it when you catch a taxi? Car-pool, or catch a bus, or walk, ride a puch-bike.

And it's not a 'mythical $9.90', nor is the fact that most households will be compensated for the cost of living. These are the findings by economists, who's job it is to determine the outcomes. Unless you're saying that you're more qualified than the people who's job it is to work this stuff out, please stop talking rubbish.

Well, unless they're one of the 500 companies, they won't be being taxed for the carbon output. In other words, irrelevant.

Cost effective and energy efficient measures. That's the idea behind the carbon tax, companies becoming more energy efficient or green. And, believe it or not, the carbon tax will actually help fund their efforts to become greener and energy efficient... through the money it earns via the carbon tax, keeping these companies competitive and not forcing inflating prices.

 

10% on all items you say, what about gas and electricy did they come into the equation? are we being doubled dipped here?

My friend if those big 500 polluters had to pay i wouldn't be screaming, but unfortunately we are going to foot the bill.

I still say the carbon tax is a GST on energy use, difference between the carbon tax and the GST, monies from the carbon tax will be going to foreign investors.

Well then if you think the GST was so great with all the food hicks we have had where in a country bountiful in meat we pay through the nose just wait to see what is going to happen to energy prices in this country.

All companies will do that are you nuts, who in this day and age will put the monkey on their back for the sake of the common good, certainely not companies my friend.

JUst tell me one thing where are they going to go to purchase this green energy FFS it doesn't exist, we cannot run our major cities on green energy because there is no green facility large enough to run a major city here in Australia.

And just who exactly is going to build this facility i still haven't heard anything, who will fork out billions of dollars for the project?

Companies will be pocketing the money and they just couldn't give a stuff about the environment, look at the European model BTW thats what we're joining, still not convinced its a scam to sell us into slavery.

The only thing that matters to them (companies) is the bottom line, cleaning the environmentis not ther problem nor will it ever be whilst we have a carbon tax.

So will we be compensated for this rise in airline tickets what about taxi fares add another $3 a ride there.

What about public transport wont that rise due to the carbon tax, utilities are in private hands, you recon these crooks would do the so called right thing.

Now does that ficticious $9:90 cover all these things, and will it cover the rise in our utility bills, i think not.

I recon the poms have got a sniff of whats to come in Australia thats why there all heading back over there, David Cameron certainely praised Julia and told us all how brave she is, BUT hold on a minute how come he's not introducing a carbon tax over there why isn't he brave too, why doesn't he penalise his people.

We're going to be living like moles at night in a dark hole, and the smart meters are designed to tax you double you know when just when you get home from work yeah starting at around 3pm, i suppose we could exercise more to save on energy bills and keep the showers after wards down to 90 seconds.

Yes it is a mythical $9:90 as i have quoted above, you believe a PM that stood up in front of our nation and promised she wouldn't and five minutes after being elected she did, just shows you how much intergrity she has.

You are not going to be compensated, the tax threshold was lifted because when we switch to an ETS those people may have revolted its only going to get more expensive year by year, will the compensation meet these increasing costs?

Your wrong the butcher will be affected the green grocer will be affected krikies dude anyone who uses energy, and i tellya what they will pass it on dont kid yourself.

Cost effective and energy efficient measures - SUCH AS??????

What buy carbon credits to ofset the carbon footprint looks good on paper does nothing in practice, claytons fix at best no even claytons is better.

WHAT ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT????????????????????????

Companies becoming more energy efficient or green - HOW???????

The only thing that can provide energy to the whole country in abundance is coal fired power stations.

Who's going to build this green energy power plant?

Dude its not even on the cards thast why its a SCAM.

 

You are absolutely correct. There are many advantages to ceasing the use of fossil fuels.

That is why stopping using them is a no-brainer. There are plenty of other ways to make electricity.

 

No - that is not correct.

A combination of wind and solar thermal could see Australia have virtually zero emissions within a decade:
http://zerocarbonplan.org/

 

Bugs the carbon tax is a scam to send our money overseas, why they chose CO2 probably because at a whopping 387 ppm or 0.0387% volume of the Earth’s atmosphere it’s the most abundant trace gas.

What about the others should we tax them too FFS.

1. methane (CH4)
2. nitrous oxide (N2O)
3. CFC's, etc.
4. Water vapor

Well bugs the carbon tax is a scam, why

The Earth’s Co2 content is approx 0.0383% by volume

By weight 383 ppm or 0.0582%

Molar mass = 44.0095 g/mole

Mean molar mass air = 28.97 g/mole

0.0383% x [44.0095/28.97] = 0.0582% Co2

Total mean mass of the atmosphere = 5.1480 x 10^18 kg (Wikipedia)

5148,000,000,000,000,000 kg

Total weight of Co2 in the atmosphere

0.0582% x 5148,000,000,000,000,000 = 2,996,136,000,000 kg

Manmade Co2 contribution is 3% the rest is natural.

What’s that bugs

3% of 2,996,136,000,000 = 89,880,000,000 kg Total manmade Co2 .

Wow that’s our contribution on a world scale but wait bugs Australia contribution to AGW is only 1.5%.

1.5% of 89,880,000,000 kg = 1,348,200,000 kg

What’s that bugs

1,348,200,000/89,880,000,000 = 0.015% of Total AGW

Now I ask you is that worth paying a trillion dollars till 2050?

And trillions more after that! And to who the UN, wall street and bankers?

Are they going to clean up the environment?

Krikies bugs we could wash all Australia down and have her squeaky clean for that sort of cash.

No need to get foreigners involved, we have always been able to handle the engineering feats Australia requires, why change now.

If our back yard is dirty lets clean the farking thing.

Hey bugs if that’s not a scam, I’m a monkeys uncle.

Now if they turned around and said that they would be taxing the water vapor in the Earth’s atmosphere which is the predominant greenhouse gas I suppose you would agree with that too.

Better stop urinating outdoors bugs your getting more water vapor up into the atmosphere dude.

 

They'll be lucky to have something up and running by 2050 dude.

But i still doubt it very much.

Cause the carbon tax will do nothing to provide the incentive for that sort of thing.

Just wait and see.

 

errr...methane and NOx are included in the Clean Energy Bill 2011. And CFCs were phased out under the Montreal Protocol in 1989.

FFS

This is the Keeling Curve:

Most of the increase in atmospheric CO2 of recent decades is due to anthropogenic emissions. This is not a difficult concept.

Who is "paying a trillion dollars till 2050"? Replace fossil fuels and the "carbon tax" will be zero. It isn't rocket science.

 

Because?

...because?

..because?

 

Bugs it doesn't matter what they include, a carbon tax on the world markets will be another pawn to be played by the high rollers.

The last thing on their minds will be actually cleaning up the environment.

Now is that so hard to understand, especially when you can see their track record and how they conduct themselves and their business.

I dont know whos curve it is but there it is.

We are going to be paying a trillion dollars by 2050.

 

I'm in engineering and i haven't heard of any GREEN projects that will be starting up any time soon.

Especially ones that will run a major city.

BTW one such project will be worth billions, who will invest that type of money???????????

Well bugs who will be running the show when we switch to an ETS, the UN, wall street and bankers.

Just look at what they are doing to the world, do you really think they will take time out to reflect on the environment and how we should clean it up?

I say lets clean our own mess up here in Australia with our money.