The Consequence of Hostile Family and Divorce Courts

Discussion in 'Women's Rights' started by ryobi, Jan 23, 2014.

  1. ryobi

    ryobi Well-Known Member

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    Distraught Father's Courthouse Suicide Highlights America's Male Suicide Epidemic
    By Glenn Sacks

    A distraught father struggling with overdue child support obligations and adverse family court decisions committed suicide on the steps of the downtown San Diego courthouse Monday. Angrily waving court documents, 43 year-old Derrick Miller walked up to court personnel at the entrance, said "You did this to me," and shot himself in the head.
    Miller is one of 300,000 Americans who have taken their own lives over the past decade--as many Americans as were killed in combat in World War II. America is in the throes of a largely unrecognized suicide epidemic, as suicide has become the eighth leading cause of death in the United States today, and the third leading cause of death among adolescents. All Americans recognize that our country is rife with violent crime, but few know that 50% more Americans kill themselves than are murdered.

    Who is committing suicide?

    For the most part, men. According to the National Institute of Mental Health, males commit suicide four times as often as females do, and have higher suicide rates in every age group. There are many risk factors for suicide, including substance abuse and mental illness, but the two situations in which men are most likely to kill themselves are after the loss of a job, and after a divorce.
    Because our society strongly defines manhood as the ability to work and provide for one's loved ones, unemployed men often see themselves as failures and as burdens to their families. Thus it is not surprising that while there is no difference in the suicide rate of employed and unemployed women, the suicide rate of unemployed men is twice that of employed men.

    It is for this reason that economic crises generally lead to male suicide epidemics. During the Midwest farm crisis of the 1980s, for example, the suicide rate of male farmers tripled. A sharp increase in male suicide occurred after the destruction of Flint, Michigan's 70 year-old auto industry, as documented in the disturbing 1989 film "Roger and Me." Some suicide experts fear a rise in suicide related to our current economic downturn.
    The other most common suicide victims are divorced and/or estranged fathers like Derrick Miller. In fact, a divorced father is ten times more likely to commit suicide than a divorced mother, and three times more likely to commit suicide than a married father. According to Los Angeles divorce consultant Jayne Major:
    "Divorced men are often devastated by the loss of their children. It's a little known fact that in the United States men initiate only a small number of the divorces involving children. Most of the men I deal with never saw their divorces coming, and they are often treated very unfairly by the family courts."
    According to Sociology Professor Augustine Kposowa of the University of California at Riverside, "The link between men and their children is often severed because the woman is usually awarded custody. A man may not get to see his children, even with visitation rights. As far as the man is concerned, he has lost his marriage and lost his children and that can lead to depression and suicide."

    There have been a rash of father suicides directly related to divorce and mistreatment by the family courts over the past few years. For example, New York City Police Officer Martin Romanchick, a Medal of Honor recipient, hung himself after being denied access to his children and being arrested 15 times on charges brought by his ex-wife, charges the courts deemed frivolous. Massachusetts father Steven Cook, prevented from seeing his daughter by a protection order based upon unfounded allegations, committed suicide after he was jailed for calling his four-year-old daughter on the wrong day of the week. Darrin White, a Canadian father who was stripped of the right to see his children and was about to be jailed after failing to pay a child support award tantamount to twice his take home pay, hung himself. His 14 year-old daughter Ashlee later wrote to her nation's Prime Minister, saying, "this country's justice system has robbed me of one of the most precious gifts in my life, my father."
    We'll never know exactly why Derrick Miller took his life and if his suicide could have been prevented. What we do know is that male suicide is one of America's most serious public health issues, and it is time to address it.
     
  2. Pasithea

    Pasithea Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    This is extremely tragic and horrifying.

    I experienced a divorce between my own parents, a very hostile and angry divorce in fact. My parents hate each other, still do. I always hear that lingering bitter resentment they have for one another if either is brought up in conversation.

    As a child I had always wished my dad wouldn't have to pay child support for me. I often thought of killing myself when I was younger because he would express his frustration with paying child support to my mother in front of us. It made me feel like a horrible burden to him. And I saw how he lived too. He had to downsize and get roommates in a bad part of town for a while (his home was broken into at least twice while he lived there as well), he also had to live with my great uncle for a bit and he often slept on the floor when we stayed with him and we slept in his bed.

    It hurt me a lot to see this. It is not good for anyone involved when parents have such hateful and bitter divorce disputes.

    On the other hand though when I was with my mother we also lived in a run down apartment and she went to work every day at a full time job and struggled to pay for daycare for my brother and I. She begged my aunt to watch us when we got out of school because the daycare costs were so high (and gods, the woman who looked after us was a horrible woman. She was an obscenely obese lady who allowed all the kids to run wild while she sat on the couch and watched TV. The other kids would often target my brother and beat him up and she did nothing about it.)

    So my father was barely making ends meet with his paycheck and my mother was also barely making ends meet with her paycheck and child support. It was just a horrible situation for everyone. =(

    I think back now and I still see no resolution to it.
     
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  3. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    It is more than the consequence of divorce and family court being hostile to men, although yes that is a huge part of it.

    And of course the consequences are more than a higher suicide rate for men. This hostility and inequity for men is what is driving the growing number of men turning away from marriage and fatherhood.

    We grow up seeing our dads, brothers, uncles, friends, coworkers etc living in misery after being divorced. Even if the ex wife dumped them for another man/ They have to drive crappy cars and live in rat hole apartments to work jobs to support the ex in the house which the man bought in the first place. We see them sometimes living in cars in the place where they work and wearing shoes with holes in the sole while the ex settles in with a new guy and the kids. Tragically we fail to notice men such as the one in the OP who die by suicide or heart attack or other causes which the destruction of their lives contributed to.

    There is no doubt that the hostility towards men by family and divorce court is caused by feminism and it's insane hatred of men and yet men are the ones accused of waging war on women.
     
  4. Pasithea

    Pasithea Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    In our situation my dad got the house, but he had to sell it because he couldn't afford to keep up the payments. Either way though, whether it was with my mom or my dad we were living in a dumpy part of town barely scraping by.

    If either of them had committed suicide over this I don't know what I would have done.

    My fiance actually experienced the opposite of this sort of situation wherein his father remained wealthy and ran off with his new wife, while he and his brother and mom lived in a very poor part of town in Salem Mass. She worked multiple jobs and had to scrape by and get food stamps and welfare whenever she could.

    My dad's good friend actually went to court to fight for custody of his daughters because his now ex-wife was a drug addict. He spent thousands and thousands of dollars and finally won custody of his daughters, but when they turned 16 they decided they wanted to live with their mom and are also now addicted to drugs. He feels totally betrayed and hurt and has completely written them off. He has another daughter from a different marriage who he raised and she was accepted to Standford I believe, she is very smart and very responsible.

    So it's not always the same situation for everyone. My father was verbally and physically abusive to my mother, which is why she left him. My fiance's father is a womanizer who was only interested in the next hot young thing coming his way, while my father's friend was an all around stand up guy trying to do his best for his kids.

    When you start getting down to the nitty gritty of it all every situation is different and is then treated differently by the courts.

    I think the most disturbing cases I have seen in family court cases are when fathers have literally proven with a parternity test that they are not the father of their ex-wives child and yet are still forced to pay child support simply because they were married to the woman and their name is on the birth certificate. Now that is a true injustice.

    But I see what you mean when you say that after seeing things like this men are starting to avoid relationships with women. My fiance and I have both experienced and seen the horrors of divorce and our relationship is actually a lot stronger for it. We are taking all the steps we can to assure that the we don't make the same mistakes our own parents made.
     
  5. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    Yes some men deserve what they get. A guy who cheats usually earns the problems which result. I know of a man recently who was involved in criminal activity with the knowledge of his wife and even her possible involvement. He was making and selling steroids to people at the gym he belonged to. When his wife found out he was sleeping around she turned him in and avoided any charges herself. Now honestly he was a fool who brought it on himself.

    Anecdotes mean little however. we all know of marriages and divorces where one person or the other is at fault. The facts however tell a more consistent story. Slightly over 50% of all marriages end in divorce. Some studies say 52% some say 53 % and so on, there is no doubt however it is a little over half, which of course means anyones odds of a marriage lasting for life is less than 50/50. The odds are simply against it.

    Most divorces are initiated by women over 70% in fact. The reasons why are very hard to measure due to different laws in each state such as no fault divorce. In states with no fault divorce laws either tha husband or wife can ask for one and get the divorce without even supplying a reason such as infidelity. Other states still require some sort of cause. Even so with various studies we can tell that the majority of divorces are not initiated because of infidelity or abuse. Usually it is irreconcilable differences or lack of satisfaction / happyness.

    It is fair to say that 90% of divorces end up hurting the men worse than women. Typically it is the ex husband not the ex wife who suffers a lower standard of living after the divorce and the emotional trauma of losing all that he once had to include his family.

    So even if a man does the right thing and treats his family good and stays faithful the odds are he will end up divorced and his life wrecked.

    Yes you also bring up a good point that it also counts for those who simply co habitate. The definition of living together varies from state to state. I am told in my state you are living together if both individuals recieve mail at the same address. In some cases co - habitation has been established by a judge after it is found that the girl had a drawer in the guys bedroom dresser for storing spare underwear. Incidentally in marriage any honest lawyer ( an oxymoron I know ) will tell you that pre - nuptials are are as worthless as the judge wishes. The judge can overturn them quicker than they can be written up and with little reason.

    These and many other reasons are probably why the American medical association recorded that a growing number of young childless men are getting vasectomies.

    The phenomenon of men opting out of traditional male roles such as marriage and father hood is international. The Australians seem to be alarmed by it. The Japanese are concerned. The Canadians are starting to get upset and The USA is stating to notice and talk about it.

    What is most alarming is that it weakens the economy. We live in a consumer economy and women do the vast majority of the consuming and purchasing. But this is often accomplished using a mans money. Despite the entrance of women in the work force a huge number of women would still rather be supprted by their husband even if they have a job of their own. So when a man decides not to engage in marriage he is effectively removing two consumers or more ( his kids ) from the economy. This is probably why the government subsidizes marriage and encourages it.

    Too bad however that men are starting not to care. Churches, parents, women, the government, society or no one else can really tell a man what to do to be happy and more and more men are deciding marriage brings unhappiness so they do not want it.
     
  6. Pasithea

    Pasithea Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    I disagree, I think anecdotes are actually important in situations like these because it brings the situation back down to the micro of individual case by individual case. Not every case in these instances is the same, every one varies to some degree and the rulings on each one also vary based on what is brought forward.

    I have actually seen arguments against this, that the divorce rate really is not upwards of 50% and that those studies were false.

    Perhaps you can provide a link to the studies on percentage of divorce and other numbers so we can be clear on what they really are?

    Which is fine by me. Better that two people who despise each other split up than remain together in a failing and unhappy marriage, or even worse in my situation stay together and be abused in front of the children leading them to think this is normal for families.

    Is it? Because in my experience it hurts every single person involved. If you can cite your statistics though that would be great.

    And if anyone truly believes this then I would advise he/she avoid marriage forever.

    Again you are making quite a few claims with little to nothing to back them up. Forgive me for asking for proof, but I am a very skeptical person by nature. lol

    Probably a good idea lest they find themselves like many men paying child support these days.

    Are they? This is the first I am hearing of this alarm. With the exception of the Japanese of course. They have a ridiculously low birth rate over there with most people opting not to have children because the cost of living is so high.

    I am not gonna lie, I have worked for many years now and I have found the working world is not for me and I would by far much prefer the traditional role of a stay at home mother (while I write my novel on the side). I have actually discussed this with my fiance and he agrees it would be best once we are married and have children to have at least one person at home to watch the kids while the other makes the money. Don't get me wrong though, I like my new job now, but not so much that I wouldn't mind going from full time to part time. Perhaps that is un-feminist of me, but oh well. (Oh but I hate shopping. My mom used to take us shopping all the time and it drove me crazy because she would browse for hours and hours. I like to get what I need and get in and get out! lol)

    Which is fine if they feel that way. Society evolves all the time, I am interested in seeing how it will evolve beyond the traditional marriage and typical family unit.
     
  7. ryobi

    ryobi Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to here about your experiences growing up Pasithea.

    I just don't see many people whose marriages have worked out, and many of the people who are married don't seem happy.

    I don't understand why these people have children.

    I'm only going to have children if I'm in a solid relationship that has a chance of lasting.

    I think some people are like, "I'm having children no matter what by the time I'm so and so age," regardless of their relationship status. I think that's selfish.
     

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