Many theists say that horrible things must be allowed to happen to people because of free will - that god can't save people from horrible situations because that would some how defy free will and/or that this is under "Satan's dominion." Yet, those same people are always praying for god to intervene. Which is it? When someone has cancer, and you want god to heal them, how is this different than us pointing out that cancer shouldn't exist in the first place? Why should god heal a person you're praying for but not get rid of cancer all together?
You'll notice the dearth of responses....less a "Nuh-huh" and another question. The problem is ...it IS a contradiction. You cannot say God will intervene from prayers, unless you deny Free Will or "the corruptness of Earthy life". And if you do, then you come up with a RANDOM, "no rhyme or reason" reason for why God "saves a child from leukemia" due to a mother's prayer one week... and then lets a Dad with a wife and six kids and huge debt die of cancer, despite theirs and numerous other prayers, the next week. Why do some prayers "work" and others don't? One praying person is BETTER than another? Or the old saw "God has a plan". Okay...if God has a plan....he doesn't NEED or won't be particularly influenced by your prayer, will he? If it's plan to let you die of cancer....then all the prayers in the world won't help. But if they do ...then his plan was FLAWED and needed to be changed, which negates his "infinite wisdom", doesn't it?
Prayer doesn't mean one will receive any direct divine intervention, but I often meditate..pray...it's all the same and quite often the answers come to me. Whether this was divinely inspired or by my own will, I don't know, but quite often prayer can be soothing/calming. Pain and suffering is part of the trials of this life and the fact that we have mortal shells. Every piece of pain in my life is a lesson and test, I at least learn from most of my mistakes. Prayer and pain are not contradiction nor does it nullify the existence of God.
I wanted to give it a thumbs up, but I didn't totally agree, so for the record, it gets 75% thumbs up.
To be more clear....INTERVENTIONIST prayer contradicts. If you're just praying "for strength"...then it wouldn't. But it is contradictory to claim both that God "has a plan" AND can be swayed by prayer to contravene that "plan". It means the plan is flawed or doesn't exist.
I don't see it as contradictory. Minor pain and hoping for intervention I doubt would derail His grand plan. Plus I don't place so many human limitations on God.
Well then you're minimizing the events. What about terminal cancer? Folks pray for "Frank" to be cured...and he's not. Or more contradictory...he is? Frank dies?...believers say "God always has a plan". Frank lives?....believers say "God cured Frank". There's a contradiction.
Because He doesn't answer? Unless of course I convince myself that my own conscious or subconscious internal dialogue is "God speaking to me, explaining his Purpose and Plan" or more often NOT explaining it but "Giving me the grace and comfort to accept his Plan"..... as long as I don't question anything or point out logical contradictions....or think? I know the path you choose.
You don't know me at all. I'm fairly liberal in my Christian beliefs leaning on some gnostic beliefs. I love studying theology and other religious beliefs.
Really? Because pretty sure "I don't know, why don't you go ask God. Oh wait..." isn't the typical intellectual and thoughtful response one hears in a theology class with serious students and theologians in it. Not really the kind of thing Malcolm Muggeridge or C.S. Lewis would snark out.
Nope. This does absolutely nothing to address the fact that many people pray for god to intervene in specific and fairly small-scale ways, while at the same time claiming that god cannot/should not save EVERYone from the same thing they're praying for. They say god can't stop all rapists, because that destroys free will. Yet, how many people will pray that someone they know doesn't get raped? They say god can't get rid of can't get rid of cancer because "free will" or some nonsensical answer like that, and yet, Christians are constantly praying for someone they know with cancer. Basically, people want to play both sides of the field, and say that god can't/shouldn't intervene in all circumstances because it makes him look like a dick or non-existent for not doing so, but when THEY hate dealing with the pain, they want to ignore the rule they made up to protect their faith and have god help them specifically. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
God has a plan for you, but a mere mortal can change God's mind when God is already aware of all outcomes before they occur.
And I laugh at those who think that every little issue will be saved if they pray, but for some it helps.
That's why it's silly to pray more than once in your lifetime. Doing it all the time indicates that you think that God's plan for you sucks and you want a better deal. And if God's will is to be done on Earth as it is in heaven how can it be changed to your benefit by asking for a new deal in prayer?
The contradiction is clear. Same folks who say "God answered my(that) prayer and cured Maw-maw of 'terminal cancer' (another discussion)"......same ones who say "God has a plan for our lives. And it's a great plan and perfect." Well, then why prayer for His intervention? If the "plan" is for Maw-maw to be cured....your prayer isn't needed. If the "plan" is for Maw-maw to die....then all the prayers in the world won't change "God's perfect plan". And, as you note, it's almost an INSULT to God to ask Him to do so. For you're basically saying "Sorry, Lord, I don't care about your 'plan'....I want you to cure my grandmother regardless of what your original idea for her was." Some may try to go down the road of "It's God's plan to cure Maw-maw AND get YOU to pray to Him to cure Maw-maw, even though He already planned to do it.".....but then you're into Free Will or even turning God into a evil puppet-master who uses your loved one's pain and suffering for his own gamesmanship.
