The death of luxury brands.

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by Wulfschilde, Mar 6, 2022.

  1. Wulfschilde

    Wulfschilde Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    196
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    I was looking at sports cars the other day and a question crossed my mind: where would I actually drive this thing? Driving an Aston Martin or something through a big American city these days would probably require you to have a death wish. Similarly, people in New York and other places are being advised to "dress down" so as to avoid being mugged or shoved into the path of an oncoming subway train. There just doesn't seem to be a place for luxury stuff in the west anymore.

    In theory there is still the south, yet from what I have observed for places in the south where there are some rich people, like in Texas, it's either as dangerous in Austin as it is in New York or, if you go to say Nashville, the vibe is to dress "country" or working class anyway. I tried wearing some of my best clothes out on Broadway in Nashville and I stuck out like a sore thumb, everyone was wearing a T-shirt and blue jeans and stared at me the whole time.

    Random middle class areas with low crime, it's not a death wish to dress nicely but most of the people there don't have the money for that kind of thing anyway. If you go out of your way to drive a Ferrari through a random suburb where literally no one has that kind of thing, you would probably just look like a prick, or as someone who doesn't live around there, which probably defeats the point. If you're literally the only person wearing or driving a luxury item, you come across as either a narcissist or a foreigner. Ironically, luxury stuff only really works in my opinion if other people around you are doing it too. Being the only person doing it comes across as anti-social.

    Is there a point to owning any of these things anymore?
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2022
  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,841
    Likes Received:
    11,316
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is a good question. Most of the very rich people now are either in the big cities, or very remote places where there is no one to show off something like a car to, and the roads are often not that good there and very rugged and impractical with inclement weather.
    Many parts of the south do have people with money, but there is a lack of cultural sophistication or appreciation for refinement. It's sort of like what would a redneck buy if he had lots of money.

    The big cities are experiencing some crime, and are overcrowded with excessive road traffic.

    I think excessive road traffic in places where the affluent middle class are typically concentrated in is one of the biggest things killing the luxury car trend. Driving is no longer so much an enjoyable activity.

    Then if you want to talk about women's luxury now, more women in society these days either do not have enough money for these luxury products or they are too busy working with careers and family to think about luxury products. That phenomena of married women with disposable income married to wealthy men mostly ended in the 1980s and 90s.

    If you want to talk about culturally, only certain areas of the US "dressed up". New York and the East Coast are the main ones (and actually only a certain part of the East Coast not too far away from New York City and Boston). Maybe a little bit in Chicago, a few traditionally rich Southern cities like Charleston, Savannah, St. Louis, New Orleans (for those who distinguished themselves from the poor). Before the 1960s, most Midwesterners commonly dressed up whenever going out in public, but it was nothing too expensive or ostentatious. There was a short time in Los Angeles where people dressed up, from about the 1920s to the 1950s, but that is mostly history.

    But it is interesting, in Spain and Italy there are plenty of people who appreciate luxury, even though they may not really have the incomes to afford it. I do think climate may have a little to do with it. In England, there is a lot of pretentiousness, people trying to live with some "class" and display of class, even though the money is not really so much there. (Unfortunately it's all too often an attempt at superiority relative to "the other class" than a more humble attempt at maintaining decency)
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2022
    Wulfschilde likes this.
  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,841
    Likes Received:
    11,316
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The irony is luxury is mostly not about comfort or oneself. It is about the display of affluence and conspicuous consumption. (Two concepts that you can do more research about. Plenty of books have been written about it)

    "Keeping up with the Joneses" is the American expression. It means you have to have what your neighbor has. No one wants to get left behind or feel deprived. It can create a sense of jealousy or inferiority.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2022
    Collateral Damage likes this.
  4. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    53,430
    Likes Received:
    49,725
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If you have money down here in the rural South chances are it will look something like this....

    Roundabout an $80,000 truck, with a four or $500 yeti cooler in the back. Probably owns an airboat and a swamp buggy with at least 50 inch tires, the flatbed trailer to pull it. Perhaps a nice Polaris side by side behind it, about $30,000 for a nice new one.

    Of course several different boats one for freshwater fishing, that will probably consist of a good 30 to $50,000 bass boat. Then you need a center console blue water boat for your saltwater, probably a good $70,000 worth of boat there.

    At least 20 acres worth of land with several good size workshops and a barn.... Well you get the idea...

    Redneck fabulous
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2022
    Wulfschilde likes this.
  5. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    6,663
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Austin hasn't been a part of Texas in a long time.
     
    Wulfschilde likes this.
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,841
    Likes Received:
    11,316
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The last time it was culturally part of Texas was probably about 1995. Today it is almost like a colony of California that is geographically located in Texas.
    Lots of young preppy professionals there. Some of them can wear some trendy clothes that are moderately expensive but still a little bit casual and not too formal.
    It's not so different from affluent middle class parts of the San Francisco Bay Area and Southern California... which probably really shouldn't be that surprising, considering where many of these tech workers and middle class families have relocated from.

    Oh, I do have some memory of what "luxury" was like in cities like Austin and Dallas during the oil boom (say up to the 1980s). Texas had a unique culture different from every other part of the country. A little bit "Southern" but with plenty of fantasy Southwest, everything a little gaudy and "over the top". The cultural sophistication hadn't quite caught up with the money yet. (Sort of the opposite situation from England) Most people reading this won't understand the finer points of this, but in some ways the culture had some similarities with the big cities in Alabama, Mississippi and even Southern Illinois (which has pretty much been dead since the 60s), so that entire region, maybe not entirely unique. I think the climate's heat is part of the reason things never got too formal. Don't want to dress up too much because you will sweat.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2022
  7. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2015
    Messages:
    8,372
    Likes Received:
    4,001
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Conspicuous consumption is fashion, it comes and goes.

    "In the 1990s, the lower and middle classes will be much more price-conscious. And the affluent will reject an "everything to excess" philosophy, experts say.

    "The 'haves' already had their orgy," says Carol Farmer, whose market research firm is based in Boca Raton. "As the majority of them pass through middle age, they will be obsessed with expressing a personal style that is more about quality and less about status."
    https://www.tampabay.com/archive/19...tailing-the-death-of-conspicuous-consumption/

    That was after the 1980s, when Republicans flooded the rich with money, and helped them cheat on their taxes...

    "In The Theory of the Leisure Class: An Economic Study in the Evolution of Institutions (1899), Thorstein Veblen identified, described, and explained the behavioural characteristics of the nouveau riche (new rich) social class that emerged from capital accumulation during the Second Industrial Revolution (1860–1914).[6] In that 19th-century social and historical context, the term "conspicuous consumption" applied narrowly in association with the men, women, and families of the upper class who applied their great wealth as a means of publicly manifesting their social power and prestige, either real or perceived."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspicuous_consumption

    Old money doesn't usually go in for it, it's the nouveaux riche...

    "Affluent consumers in affluent societies are increasingly coming to grips with this paradox. Whereas conspicuous consumption was once the most effective means of signalling status, now it risks conveying only showiness. It is an age-old game of social learning: if the aim to impress is overly transparent, over time it comes to be seen as vulgar."
    https://www.ft.com/content/29aadf7b-10c3-4a02-b70e-dc87c474fa9d
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2022
  8. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    6,663
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I so totally agree. For the longest time we saw homeless folks all over the sidewalks and streets of Austin... something I left California to escape. Austin is, indeed, a "Little San Francisco"... but the colonization effort isn't working. Texas remains a bastion of freedom from gun laws to the China Virus Mandate Tyranny seen in blue states to securing the border (which the feds refuse to do) to state income taxes (which we don't have) to law enforcement (which we DO have) and so much more more. TEXAS!! WHERE FREEDOM LIVES!
     
  9. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    6,663
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    When I got out of college I had a brand new 455 HD Trans Am. Anyone could spot it a mile away in the parking lot. Folks drove Barracudas, GTO's, Jaguars... Seen a Jaguar lately? Unless you are close enough to see the logo,it looks like a KIA... which looks like every other car in the lot. You used to be able to spot a Cadillac a block away. Now Cadillacs look like Fords... which look like KIA's.... ad nauseam
     
    Wulfschilde likes this.
  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,841
    Likes Received:
    11,316
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Some of this has to do with increasingly stringent "efficiency" standards, which constrain the design shape of the car since aerodynamic flow is important.
    You can thank government rules for that.

    People who actually run businesses are aware of all sorts of ways that government rules limit our decisions and increase costs, in ways that ordinary people are not aware of.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2022
    Wulfschilde and AARguy like this.
  11. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    This IMO is still true.
    If you have to display or talk about your wealth, you don't really have it in your family.
    In the UK those whose families have had wealth for a long time have known each other for hundreds of years, intermarried, fought for their country and built piles and palaces which are not fit for this century anymore. They just take far too much money to keep up so they are either open to the public, split into apartments or sold to the National Trust , an organisation you can pay into and which preserves these places.
    I just finished watching "Inventing Anna" based on the true story of the woman who swindled large businesses and close friends out of millions just to prove to her family that she wasn't a failure. Unfortunately she equated a wealthy lifestyle with success and failed to realise that a success doesn't have to be reflected in bling.
    The nouveau riche do indeed fling the bling and compete for ostentations attention.
    I prefer those who are more than comfortably off and who dress moderately. True class isn't in what you wear or buy...it is in a certain invisible behaviour, like how to treat servants (even if you don't have any) with respect and yet maintain your position as the employer, not the employee. Like how and what to drink which is unknown to the nouveau riche. Where those little boutiques are that are tucked down the small streets off the main roads. How to look a million dollars in a dirty jeep. (Princess Anne and Will's wife Catherine do this beautifully)
    It takes a long time for the nouveau riche to not stand out like a sore thumb. Their values are just not the same as the real rich.
     
    Wulfschilde likes this.
  12. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,841
    Likes Received:
    11,316
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I wonder if the death of luxury brands has to do with the decline in consumer wealth. Sure, the statistics say Americans are not poorer than they were before, but the price of land and housing has become inflated. A house now costs double what it used to. So Americans are not really "more wealthy" because a larger part of that total "wealth" is tied up in their house.
    It's not just luxury brands, but in many areas you can see commercial spaces struggling, all at the same time more high density apartment housing is being built. More of the total resources in the economy are being diverted to the cost of housing, rather than conventional consumer activities.
     
  13. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,914
    Likes Received:
    3,088
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Don't drive your luxury car in the lower-end neighborhoods where it will attract crime.

    The world has become all too dangerous.

    Of course, a decline in quality might also affect the sales of former luxury brands.
     
    Collateral Damage likes this.
  14. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    5,024
    Likes Received:
    3,439
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That is an awesome name. You should pitch that idea for a new reality TV show before someone steals it.
     
    Wulfschilde likes this.
  15. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    5,024
    Likes Received:
    3,439
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think it is more of a generational thing. When I first graduated and got my first career job I rushed out and purchased a brand new sports car. Back then my Ford GT Mustang convertible was the most expensive thing I ever purchased. In time I purchased a condo and then eventually a home in the suburbs and filled it with electronics or whatever.

    I think the younger generation like millennials and gen Z do not crave the same type of lifestyle. I know many younger programmers making well in excess of 100k a year that have no car and are happy to rent. They tell me experiences are more important to them than material goods. They will spend their money on expensive restaurants, concerts, shows, travel, events, hobbies, clothing etc... I think a lot of this has to do with social media because they love to share these experiences with their friends and peers.
     
    Wulfschilde likes this.
  16. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    10,535
    Likes Received:
    8,149
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My opinion, flamboyant displays of wealth are not only tacky, but mark you as a target of jealousy and 'the reason everybody is so poor you don't deserve more than me and you kicked my dog".

    I laugh when I see a Mercedes Benz or a Cadillac parked at the Dollar General. Priorities, people.
     
  17. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    6,663
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Interesting perspective. I managed to travel, see the world, do the theatre thing and restaurants on a business expense account. I spent my own money on a home, a jacuzzi out back, a walk-in tub, a gun collection and a couple of freezers full of ribeyes. Oh... yeah... and the kids!
     
  18. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    5,024
    Likes Received:
    3,439
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes kids. Every generations ultimate luxury sink hole.:)
     
  19. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    6,663
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Your own kids are a sink hole. You know that the day you bring them home from the hospital. You expected to love them, care for them... spend money on food, clothing and all the rest. You know you'd love doing it.
    But when the grandkids come along its different. You never really had the tremendous love you have for tem on the radar. You weren't thinking about a whole new generation of love and giving. And sinkhole.... LOL.
     
    cristiansoldier likes this.
  20. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    5,024
    Likes Received:
    3,439
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You are so right. I haven't even starting thinking about that possibility yet.
     
  21. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,841
    Likes Received:
    11,316
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, lots of women these days are trading in the idea of kids for a little yippy dog.

    I know a woman who gives her dog $160 beauty treatments and bottled water (and not the cheap kind of bottled water either, the water comes from Fiji).

    I knew of a stepmother who spent more money on her little dog than was spent on her own stepchild.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
    Wulfschilde likes this.
  22. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    7,804
    Likes Received:
    3,841
    Trophy Points:
    113
    TBH, a lot of these rides all look basically the same. A Porsche looks like a BMW looks like a Buick looks like a Toyota.
     
    Wulfschilde likes this.
  23. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    6,663
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    OH! FOR THE GOOD OLD DAYS! When a Mustang got your heart pounding! When a TRANS AM got you excited! When a GTO sent you into a craze! When a mile long Cadillac said you were SOMEBODY!
     
    Wulfschilde likes this.
  24. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    6,663
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Crazy.
     
  25. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I am carefully hiding this from Pixie who would be delighted at such unknown luxuries.

    I prefer my dogs working on flocks of sheep in muddy fields all day. (that was in the BP days...Before Pixie).
     

Share This Page