The Diversity Experiment Has Failed Spectacularly...Bring Back The BEST QUALIFIED People!!

This seems to be something you can not wrap your head around. People, individuals have been defined by their race as part of US culture since the beginning. It continues with whites having subjectively more merit than a Black in hiring for example. Those doing the hiring are not vile racists. It is an unconscious part of the culture and it needs to be brought up to the conscious level so they can see what is being done at the expense of African Americans. That is one thing that evil boogeyman DEI does. Ignoring a problem doesn't solve a problem and there has been a problem forever, which the right-wingers deny because they like it that way.

It is completely subjective. If you are Trump hiring a cabinet wouldn't merit be in the professional who is loyal to him alone with the ability to carry out his ideas no matter how absurd and a skill set that includes lying with a straight face.

 

Yes, I understand that. I am suggesting you should stop pushing to continue that, which is what you are doing when you encourage people to discriminate against people based on race, regardless of what the race is. Just because there is a long history of it doesn't mean you must or should continue it. You don't seem able to wrap your head around that.

That's fine. That's why you should hire as race blind as possible. It isn't an excuse to discriminate against white applicants, asian applicants or anyone else.

True. And encouraging more of the same problem makes it worse.

It depends on the job. The vast majority of jobs are looking for productivity, creativity, or other ability which isn't politics or race. Hiring based on politics or race or gender is counter productive and rather vile. But yes, there are a very few cases where politics, race, or gender can actually be part of the job (such as an actress playing a historical figure, a female security officer to strip search female prisoners, or a political partisan in a political party they are partisan for). That is not the norm.

 

But its not the same problem.

 

Its the same problem to those of us who are not racist. Its not ok to be racist agaisnt people of any particular race.

 

Why do you think that shouldn't happen to you, who are you that you have special privilege.

 

Why did you suddenly make this about me? It shouldn't happen to anyone. Not to me for being blasian, not to the black girl, not to the white guy.

 

Its simple, right now whatever racism and discrimination whites are facing right now pales in comparison to what blacks have had to go thru. SO QUIT WHINING ABOUT IT. Its just not that bad.

 

Just because racism today isn't as bad as it was in the past doesn't make it excusable.
And it isn't just about people who are white. Racism still happens to people who are black. And it happens to people who are hispanic and who are asian too.
There is no excuse for any of it. You should stop trying to make excuses for it.

 

I'm not, I'm telling people to stop whining about it, your not actually suffering.

 

All populists are screaming "racist". LOL

I have worked as a software engineer for 30 yrs and I have not really seen the issue in real life, but I have heard stories, and complaints about blacks being hired and people assume its always because of their race. Currently I work in a team where we have 90+% of the workers from India, and zero blacks, so I guess you already got what you were asking for (Bring Back The BEST QUALIFIED People)
.

 

I don't to be personally suffering to object to and demand an end to racist discrimination. You do?

 

It clearly isn't always because of their race, but when you have policies explicitly calling for hiring people because of their race, this makes the suspicion rampant and somewhat reasonable. It hurts those who would have gotten in regardless, now being questioned with some rational basis, especially by those who don't know their qualification / scores / work performance histories. Nepo hires face a similar barrier. Even when the boss' kid is great at the job, new customers won't know that and will likely wonder if she is qualified.

 

If they were merely objecting to racial discrimination that's one thing, but their specifically objecting to discrimination against whites while proclaiming there's no discrimination against blacks.

 

I don't know how its enforced, if at all. given the fact that we have companies with 90+% Indian workforce. Coming to think about it, if a company has 100K employees, I suppose they can have 100% Indian IT team, as log as other departments have whites, blacks, etc

 

That's what you think I wrote above? Really? Or suddenly its now not about me (as your last post suddenly made it) or what I wrote and about what "they" said?
So, lets stop with the ridiculous "what they say" thing and address what I actually wrote, which you now toss to the side as "one thing" you fail to condemn.

 

Oh, has your comment expired, and you no longer believe what you believed a year ago?

 

And what is the happy bird's plan to erase "race" and its inequities in the US?

 

Didn't
Earn
It

 

Hmmmm, so you believe that ex soldiers should not get hiring preferences either? They do you know.

 

I don't think they should. But if they do, it's less objectionable, because at least an argument can be made that they earned that preferential treatment.

 

And you don't see value in someone rising above their poverty and poor schools?

 

It adds to their merit. As I said merit is subjective. It could be gone to the right school, in the right fraternity, being a white male, years of experience, physical ability, who you know.....but a negative is being Black.

 

You have asked me that before and you ignored my response.

1. End all state sanctioned discrimination by race; Stop encouraging the problem. Recognize it for what it is. Just because it is now done to white people doesn't make it ok.

2. Push the message that caring about race is stupid, and that race is not central to who people are anymore than eye colour or nose length.

3. Include everyone who wants to participate in whatever culture or cultural event they want to. Recognize that "racial cultural appropriation" isn't a thing. Scottish guys in kilts can be black. White guys can wear dreadlocks.

4. Stop using race as a synonym for other things such as wealth, merit, ability, criminal record, etc.

5. Do more to help those in need regardless of their race, gender, etc. This will go a long way towards closing group average disparities, but not do so in a racist manner creating more racism.

6. Disparity in race group averages can be used as a gauge for progress, and not as a tool to create a false image of that progress. Doing the latter both gives a false sense of accomplishment and creates more racism.

7. Create policies to make hiring and admissions as race blind as possible. Erase names from resumes, out emphasis on test scores, work product, etc.

8. We should strive to get to a society in which you can not predict income, criminal record, etc from somebody's race. Programs like AA do aim for that same goal, which is good, but they almost never recognize the base injustice and violation of principles that they use to get there. In some rare cases, where visibility is especially high, they may be justified with the good outweighing the bad. One such example may be media (which is happening and I find far less objectionable than school admissions or general hiring).

9. Encourage people to stop phrasing things in terms of racial monoliths, ie "the black vote", or "the whites do this and the blacks do that". See the individuals for who they actually are as people. This is similar to referring to a man in a wheelchair as a man in a wheelchair instead of a wheelchair man.

10. Loudly and clearly denounce all racism as unacceptable. Don't make excuses that some people "can't be racist" or that racism against some races is ok because of what people have done in the past to other races. Failing to condemn all racism and racial discrimination dilutes the fight against racism and gives cover to racists. When you make excuses for racism against white people, you drive many of them to identify by race and to rail into a race war against those who aren't theirs. Don't let racism be a cycle that goes around and around forever. Break that cycle.

I am sure others here can add to this list. There are many ways we can (and some of us do) actually fight against racism rather than creating more of it.

 

Yeah, most of the time when I hear people complain about being a "victim" of DEI, they say they were applying for a job or promotion and then a POC who went to a less prestigious school got the job instead.

I've done a lot of hiring. I've NEVER cared which school someone went to. Sometimes these folks will also claim they had better grades than their competition . . . which is virtually impossible for them to know and also doesn't really matter.

 

Basing things on merit is a good goal, but it's not true it's ever been that way. Maybe if AI can someday make hiring decisions, it could be done by merit then. But when humans are involved, emotion kicks in. Once a person is qualified, by default it becomes a matter of whether they fit in and are liked. Guess who is more likely to fit in and be liked? The ethnicity and type of person in the majority.

I think the common ground I have with you in the meantime though is standards should not be lowered to meet arbitrary quotas.