The Future EU Army

Nah.....I was dealing with your limitations, remember? You refuted something? While taking yourself out of context and not telling all the facts. That which you accuse others of from the US.

Oh and anybody with Common sense knows that Germany can't take the US on. So that isn't refuting anything.

The US new Tank and its New 120mm gun. Isn't produced by Germany.

Yes look up why those use the Leopard. You will see it has to do with cost. Mainly cost.

So what were you saying again?

 

No I am not the one ignoring facts.....that is you.


And yet such procurement efforts are still rare in Europe — largely because their history is full of disappointments. Take the A400M military transport plane. During the 1980s, eight European countries jointly commissioned the aircraft, which was being developed by companies from several of the countries. The partner countries were told to expect delivery of their planes by 2009.

Though the Cold War ended in the interim, European armed forces still desperately needed such an aircraft to transport troops and equipment, especially during their joint operations in Afghanistan. Having the same transport aircraft fleet would have been akin to having identical bus fleets, even allowing countries to borrow from one another if necessary. But delays intervened — and then intervened again. The first planes were delivered just three years ago. By that time, several buyers had already given up and bought other planes, partly because design requests made by one of the countries had added significant weight to the plane, reducing its lifting capacity.

Or consider the pan-European NH90 helicopter procurement, which was launched in the 1990s and immediately took a turn for the worse when virtually every country insisted on adding features, which caused delays and cost overruns. “In the end, there were 20 different versions,” noted Hilmar Linnenkamp, a former deputy director of the European Defence Agency (EDA) who is now an advisor to the international security research division at the German Institute for International and Security Affairs in Berlin. “It was not a joint project anymore.” Because of the delays, Sweden, for example, had to buy off-the-shelf American Black Hawk helicopters for its troops in Afghanistan; Stockholm didn’t receive its first NH90 helicopters until last December.

There’s also the sad story of the NFR-90, a frigate jointly thought up by NATO member states in the 1980s. (Frigates are navies’ warhorses, ships smaller than destroyers but larger than corvettes.) After the allies disagreed on virtually every possible feature, including which anti-ship weapon the vessel should have, the NFR-90 was consigned to the dustbin of history entirely.

Even among the closest of allies, joint procurements tend to go sour. The Swedish Armed Forces are about to end up with 48 cannons (officially known as artillery pieces) instead of the 24 they were originally looking for because procurement partner Norway decided the planned artillery didn’t fit its requirements. A recent attempt by the closely allied Nordic countries to jointly procure helicopters also failed, as did a planned submarine procurement by Sweden, Norway, and Denmark. In the end, only Sweden was interested in buying the submarines made by the Swedish firm Kockums.


The EDA is supposed to facilitate joint acquisitions for EU countries, and it has had some successes with simple purchases.

But the steps that would help most — common standards on, say, the size of mounted guns so that basic specifications don’t have to be negotiated with every new product development — remain a long way off, argued Nilsson. “That would also allow allies to help each other in crisis situations because each has equipment that could easily be used by the others,” he said. “But unfortunately every country thinks mostly about itself.”....snip~ same FP Link~


You have figured out that is your own doing the assessing and the talking, Correct?

 

Aside fact that I always did and you not ... what is your point?

If we want we can ... but we have no need fort wasting money in military like you have around the world.

You means this paper project? Lol...

And yes, it has also to do with costs ... cost of fuel consumption and maintenance!
And then we are again with facts with your intention about facts:

Costs of an M1A2 ... depending on version and which equipment etc. is between 8-10 Million USD! This are in Euro between 7 and 8.7 million EUR!
Source: https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-an-M1A2-Abrams-battle-tank-cost

Costs of a Leopard 2A7 (latest version) are 10 million EUR what are about 11.3 million USD.
Source is a report about Qatar who wants to buy 200 Leopard 2A7 for 10,000,000 EUR each
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-g...-from-germany-newspaper-idUKBRE96D05E20130714
and in German
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtscha...is-zu-200-leopard-panzer-kaufen-11835934.html

What tank is now more expensive, eh? Again refuted by facts!

 

Mmmh .... because I hace to leave now due to football (soccer) training, only short and later more:

Who sits in the hlassy greenhouse should not throw stones to the outside. Look on your great F-35 which should be still in full service with all 3 different versions, for what orgininally price and delivered to whom all in the world since when again?

 

Yes you did give a partial story about getting all of those military problems solved.

Well there is also the fact of many around the world not wanting to deal with Germans. Another fact you forgot to mention.

Uhm that is what I said Cost. Your Leopard tank being cheaper.

Of course now you will have to up that money since your Leopard tank is obsolete against Putins new tank.

The New US Tank the M1A2 Sep3 is more expensive since it can take out Putins new tank. That which your Leopard can't do.

So wrong about you refuting anything once again.

 

That's bulletproof glass also more expensive. Just sayin.

 

I could find geezers who make the same points I do. The implication being that pointing out my age isn't enough to wave me away.

Don't imagine you're going to enlighten anybody?

Welcome to the forum.

 

First of all it takes a lot more than a weapon to make a soldier. If having a weapon is all it takes the US has an army of over 100 million. If they can afford weapons why are they training with broomsticks? Is that their idea of a high tech weapon?

 

Germany trains our police dogs in London.
...


Will they train the EU army dogs?

 

Spare us that bullshit and crawl back under your stone.

One thing i would like to tell you as a german, we dont want shot nukes at you. We want not mich contact with you. We do business with the world, follow our interests and do the best for our nation.

Step down from your high horse. Your military is crap and your soldiers lazy and rapists without any morals. In Japan they rape till today on a daily basis.

How good your tech is could be seen at the NATO meaneuver in 2014 where a german submarine broke through the security ring around one of your carriers and in action would have sunk it.

As for France, im not a fan of them, but you would not **** down a single nuke of them. You dont have functiobal tech to do so.

And stop to beg for respect for have been a soldier. 99% of your serving time you sat your ass flat on a cgair. Im a police apprentice and propably did already more for my country than you ever could.

USA is a thing of the past. We decide about an EU army, not you. Our security is none of your business

 

This is why no one likes you Germany...

You forget Europe isn't the world.

Bring on a UK US free trade deal, Brexit now, you know.

Get out of your arse Germany, you're nothing without Europe and Europeans don't want a Europe controlled by Germany.

 

@Sobo

Who cares what the EU do?

You forget yourself, think you can say **** with Lidl and VW; cheap food and cheating cars; go away and come back when your OCD is cured.

 

@Sobo, stop messaging me moaning at me like I care.

Your country ain't no melting pot, and immigrants in Germany don't see themselves as German.

 

The NL are still in the EU, and oppose this idea.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...manuel-macron-angela-merkel-eu-military-force

 

In German there is no distinction. Speaking about"Verienigte Staaten" in Germany means basicly an Empire.

 

Sure Mr. Impossible, whatsoever you say. Can't manufacture rifles, can't train men, can't do anything......

 

Yes. In German "Vereinigte Staaten" is one nation under one rule. A lose group would be a Konföderation.

 

Interesting. So you think the Red Army turned back from Berlin for somebody else?





How's your German?

 

The one that worked for millenia. Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Greece, Sweden, Denmark. A Europe of father nations