The Future of Transportation - Part 1

There is an enormous amount of misinformation going around about clean energy, renewables, non-polluting fuels, etc.. This may be part of a propaganda campaign that the fossil fuel industry has mounted to protect their market dominance and profits. In any case, solar, wind, ocean and other alternatives gets routinely attacked with bogus, spun-up, twisted pseudo-science and lies. One of the myths that gets pushed is that there are no viable alternatives to petroleum that have a sufficiently high energy density for their use in transportation, particularly in aviation. Of course, that is nonsense right off the top, because high-energy-density non-petro bio-fuels have already been developed and tested and will be coming into increasing use in just the next few years. Additionally, liquid hydrogen has an energy density as high as petroleum based fuels, so high, in fact, that it has even been used as a rocket fuel.

The Future of Aviation Biofuels
20 February 2012
(excerpt)
In New York, Bloomberg New Energy Finance said that jatropha-based fuels were the near-term candidate as sustainable aviation fuels available at prices competitive with conventional jet fuel. The BNEF research unit said that it expected jatropha-based jet fuel to be available at $0.86-a-litre ($3.25 per gallon) by 2018. Following the emergence of jatropha-based fuels, BNEF said that aviation fuel made from pyrolysis of woody biomass represented the next most affordable category of aviation biofuels, projecting that jet fuel from this source could be available at $0.90 per litre ($3.40 per gallon) by 2018.

Pure regular alcohol bio-fuel has an energy density a bit lower than gasoline but it is still quite useful for most transportation purposes. Some of the other aliphatic alcohols (methanol, ethanol, propanol, and butanol) that can be produced biologically have both energy densities similar to gasoline and over 25% higher octane ratings.

Biofuels, while technically carbon neutral, still emit CO2 and have other complications associated with them and their production so, other than as an example of an already existing high-energy-density fuel for transportation, let's leave biofuels aside for a later debate and consider some of the other viable high density non-petroleum energy sources for transportation that will almost certainly come to dominate the transport sector in the next decade or so and should eventually replace petroleum fuels altogether.

There are several main viable prospects for powering both surface vehicles and aircraft without the use of fossil fuels of any kind (or any other kind of CO2 emitting fuel, for that matter, even bio-fuels).

Two of the main categories would be electric energy storage and hydrogen storage. Both of these are still in their initial, fast developing stages, with new advances eclipsing earlier developments regularly.

Let's first consider the actual cutting edge of electric energy storage methods. There are two main avenues of research - battery storage and supercapacitors. Some of these advances have been recently developed and are already moving from the 'research and development; stage into the initial, preliminary 'development for production' stages. I’ll get to those after first looking at one new and radical development in battery technology that is already in production and that has already proven itself in limited use.

Objections to electric storage for vehicular travel have generally centered on the cost of the batteries, the weight of the batteries, the length of time to recharge the batteries, and, perhaps primarily, the limited amount of energy that the current generation of production battery technology can pack into a battery of reasonable size and weight. That inability of the current batteries to power a car for much more than a hundred miles or so has been, in addition to the first generation high prices, the main sticking point for consumers.

An enormous amount of research has been directed at overcoming these limitations and great strides have been made along a number of different lines of research, some very recently. Here's a sampling of some of those developments that will, in the fairly near future, dramatically extent the range of electric vehicles, reduce the charge time of the batteries enormously, and significantly reduce the size, cost and weight of the batteries.

First let’s look at a radical new technology just coming on the market that may change the electrical vehicle market much faster than anyone anticipated.

This Breakthrough Will Soon Slash EV Prices Drastically
Wall Street Daily
Justin Fritz
Published Tue, Aug 30th, 2011
(excerpts)
The “Holy Grail” Of Cutting EV Costs
You see, the biggest culprit behind inflated EV prices is the battery. It adds $10,000 or so to an EVs manufacturers suggested retail price (MSRP). What’s worse, owners need to replace the lithium-ion battery every 10 years. So the cost of ownership is a huge deterrent. But DBM Energy’s new advanced battery – Kolibri – is constructed with a special lithium metal polymer. Early reports suggest this battery will cost 89% less than existing batteries and will only need to be replaced approximately every 20 years. Plus, it trounces existing batteries in three other important ways…

~ Weight: A Kolibri is reportedly 29% lighter than the battery pack in a Tesla Roadster.
~ Efficiency: A Kolibri has enough power to keep an Audi (ETR: NSU) A2 cruising for an astonishing 400 miles on a single charge.
~ Charging: You can fully charge a Kolibri battery in just six minutes. The Leaf takes closer to six hours.​

The potential for this new technology seems very promising and the company’s already in talks with major automakers worldwide. It foresees a mainstream rollout of its superior Kolibri battery not too far off. Once this happens, it’s reasonable to assume that you’ll be able to buy a Nissan LEAF for around $26,300. Or $18,800 after factoring in the government tax credit.


Converted Audi A2 claims new electric vehicle distance record: 372 miles
Oct 27th 2010
(excerpts)
Berlin energy supplier Lekker Energie and battery company DBM Energy have teamed up to electrify an Audi A2 and take it on an attention-getting 605 km (379.9 mile) journey from Munich to Berlin, Germany. The run, conducted at night, was such a success that the team is claiming an electric vehicle world record of sorts. While the Japan EV Club managed to squeeze 1,003 km (623 miles) from their Mira on a track driving a steady 40km/h (25 miles per hour), this latest feat was performed on public roads at an average speed of 55 miles per hour. The Germans even had 18 percent of the pack's 115 kWh left at the end.

While the length and speed of the trip are all very nice, the real story here seems to be the batteries that made it possible. Developed sans government investment, the lithium metal polymer (LMP) cells, which Lekker and DBM refer to as Kolibri AlphaPolymer Technology, are said to be lighter and more powerful than traditional cells and operate with an efficiency of 97 percent. They were also compact enough to be integrated into the car without giving up passenger seating or trunk space. Want more amazing? Apparently, when connected to a generous enough power supply, the batteries can recharge in just six minutes. Also, when asked when production could start, DBM Energy CEO Mirko Hannemann answered, "now." Does it all just sound too good to be true? Maybe, but we expect we'll get more information – and confirmation from other sources one way or the other – real soon.


(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)

(continued)

 

(continued from previous post)

DBM Energy's KOLIBRI technology passes safety and performance tests with flying colors
DBM Energy's KOLIBRI Press Release - Free to Reprint

- LMP lithium-metal-polymer battery cells (KOLIBRI) pass comprehensive safety tests

- Independent range test confirms performance and range of KOLIBRI batteries

- Full-scale field trial scheduled for 2011

Berlin, Germany – 1. April 2011 – For over a year the KOLIBRI battery cells developed by DBM Energy have been performing reliably in electrically powered logistics vehicles. In October 2010, as part of a demonstration project, this innovative battery technology powered a conventional passenger car converted to electrical power over a distance exceeding 600 km, setting a worldwide record. 5,000 charging cycles document the range and longevity of the KOLIBRI LMP lithium-metal-polymer battery technology. Independent studies now also confirm the safety and performance of the KOLIBRI technology.

Safety
On 17 January 2011, the German Federal Institute for Materials Research and Testing (BAM - Bundesanstalt für Materialforschung und –prüfung) initiated a comprehensive test program to evaluate the safety aspects of the innovative LMP lithium-metal-polymer battery technology (KOLIBRI) developed by DBM Energy GmbH. The recently completed tests on individual battery cells confirm that the KOLIBRI technology used on the world record-setting drive on 26 October 2010 meets the required safety standards for use in stationary applications as well as in passenger and commercial vehicles.

The safety tests were conducted in accordance with the protocols established in the 5th edition of the UN Transport Test Manual for the Transport of Dangerous Goods published in 2009. The recommended testing methods for lithium batteries serve as an international standard. In eight exhaustive tests series, the KOLIBRI technology was examined to establish its safety when subjected to extreme climate and pressure variations, electrical short-circuiting, overload or inversed polarity as well as strong mechanical forces such as vibrations, show and heavy impact.DMB's LMP cells easily passed the entire range of tests.

"The LMP cells we tested stand out by their high degree of technical safety," said Prof. Schröder in explaining the results of the tests, which had been repeated a number of times. The LMP lithium-metal-polymer battery systems met all the standards set in the UN test series. The cells exhibited no leaks, did not generate heat exceeding 170 degrees Celsius, did not decompose or ignite, and maintained in excess of 90% of electrical tension.

In addition to the UN tests, the battery cells were also tested for fire risks. The LMP cells proved absolutely fire and explosion proof when exposed to direct fire. The BAM's Prof. Schröder concludes: "Overall it can be stated that the KOLIBRI cells completely fulfill all safety requirements for this type of technology."

Performance
Besides BAM's safety tests, the KOLIBRI technology was subjected to an independent range test by German certification institute DEKRA at its test center at the Lausitz EuroSpeedway racetrack in Klettwitz, Germany. The range of the LMP battery system on the Audi A2 test vehicle platform was determined following the procedures set down in the currently applicable ECE-R 101 directive for measuring the range of vehicles equipped with an electric drive. The tests were conducted in facilities and with equipment that fully complied with testing protocol requirements.

At the time of determining testing parameters prior to commencing the test, the vehicle weight – empty weight not including driver – was measured below the approved total mass of 1,500 kilograms. The maximum energy delivered by the LMP battery was measured at 62.928 kWh. By comparison, the battery capacity registered at the time of the world record in October 2010 was 98 kWh. The lower capacity, however, proved sufficient for the range tests as per ECE-R 101, which require that a distance of at least 300 km be covered.

All test results of the KOLIBRI technology were subsequently verified and validated by DEKRA. This includes the initial battery charge after handing over the vehicle, recharging the battery over charging period of 12 hours, discharging the battery over a distance of 100 km at a constant speed of 70 km/h as well as determining the vehicle's driving resistance. The peak speed measurement during the 30-minute maximum speed segment was 100 km/h. The required condition of covering a distance of 300 km within 7 days was met in one session on a roller dynamometer, indicating a range of 454.83 kilometers with the 62,928 kWh LMP battery. Adjusted for the battery capacity of 98 kWh at the time of the worldwide range record, the range would have been 714 km. The efficiency of the LMP battery was determined to be at 97%.


The test vehicle equipped with the KOLIBRI battery technology will be on
display on the BMWi (Federal Ministry of Economics and Technology)
stand in Hall 2 at the Hannover Messe Industrie trade fair and expo from 4
to 8 April 2011.

About DBM Energy
DBM Energy GmbH , founded in 2009 and based in Berlin, Germany, manufactures high-performance energy storage systems. DBM Energy has developed an innovative battery technology: KOLIBRI. This lithium-based intelligent energy storage system is monitored, controlled and optimized via integrated controllers to ensure optimum efficiency. The KOLIBRI technology finds universal application as an energy storage system for stationary equipment, electric passenger vehicles and commercial vehicles in the logistics and manufacturing industries. As part of a demonstration project, an everyday vehicle modified for electric power and equipped with the KOLIBRI technology covered a distance exceeding 600 km with a single charge in October 2010, setting a worldwide record.

(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)

 

I see where EV took another company (and a boatload of taxpayer dollars) down.

Why not just use old-school railroad electrification.

http://www.treehugger.com/cars/its-time-to-electrify-the-railroads.html

Bio-fuels still compete with food crops for arable land and water.

Now if you could find a way to economically harvest kudzu, you might be on to something.

 

Aviation alcohol?

You are aware of what methanol does to aluminum and most plastics, aren't you?


Hydrogen as aviation fuel?

Where do you propose to get the massive amounts of hydrogen?

 

Here's another article about the Kolibri battery that has some additional details.

Cost-effective EV battery passes German tests, recharges in minutes

by Jeff Cobb
GM-VOLT : Chevy Volt Electric Car Site
Apr 12, 2011
(excerpts)

We’re talking potential for reasonably priced electric cars that could travel 300-400 miles on a charge, and be replenished in minutes. If reports we were given prove true, this would mean the future is practically now – not years from now – with safe and durable batteries threatening to relegate petrol cars to merely optional status. According to DBM Energy’s Chief Operating Officer, Markus Röser, a 98.8-kWh version of its battery can be fully recharged inside of six minutes, although he would not divulge how this was accomplished. ...consider the battery’s range potential. One version with over seven times the energy capacity of the Volt’s battery, and 4.75 times power of the LEAF’s battery, had enough juice to propel a converted Audi A2 test mule for more than 400 miles at highway speeds on a single charge. ...last month Germany’s federal agency for materials research and testing – BAM – independently certified DBM’s KOLIBRI battery after a series of eight tests. These were reportedly done according to the UN Test Handbook protocol for lithium batteries, and the battery came out with flying colors. The BAM’s chief investigator, Prof. Volkmar Schroeder, reportedly said the battery cells met “all essential safety tests very well” and were characterized “by a high degree of technical safety.”

After those tests, an Audi A2 powered by the 63-kWh version of the battery being tested was put through four days of driving on a chassis dyno in eastern Germany at the DEKRA test center at the EuroSpeedway Lausitz. The DEKRA test protocol showed the DBM electric Audi A2 went 284.3 miles (454.82 km). This battery had about 45 percent less energy than the initial “supposed” A2 record-setting car last fall, and now the German government has essentially verified its credibility. Actually, DBM estimated the first A2 could have gone 450 miles (721 km) on a single charge. And as for durability, DBM said the KOLIBRI battery’s lifespan should be 10 years, or 5,000 charge cycles. Recharge time for a version like the one that went 284.3 miles might be only four minutes or so. But what would it cost? An estimated price for a (larger) 98.8-kWh version was a paltry $1,100-$1,400 (€800-€1,000).

Apologizing for his English, Röser told GM-Volt the battery is already being used in warehouse equipment, and has other applications pending. “The KOLIBRI technology has run in forklifts for two years – very efficient,” Röser said, “We already delivered 15 batteries for forklifts in 2010/ 2011 and further orders are already placed. The companies we are working with are large logistical companies running warehouses like Papstar, a subsidiary company of Swarowski.” Röser said DBM’s chemistry is indeed superior to that of EV batteries commonly in use today. “The KOLIBRI technology is based on Lithium Metal Polymer basis, the battery on solid matter basis. Through a special battery packaging we reach more efficiency and higher effectiveness, smaller packaging, lower weight and lower prices,” Röser said, “The Li-Ion battery reach about 60-80 percent effectiveness, the KOLIBRI technology about 97 percent. With a 300 kg battery pack of 98 kWh we reach a distance of 600 kilometers without a stop and without a gas engine or range extender.”


(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)

 

The battery was 98.8KWH, or about 131HP hours, used to cover 714KM, or about 0.3HP hour / mile. Looks like the miracle isn't the battery, but the car it was used in.

Th article was about a year ago, and this is one of the few articles about the same test, done in October of 2010. Was this a battery ready for use, or a ploy for more funding? If even near ready, why haven't the auto companies been advertizing these batteries?


As far a recharging EV's, sometimes the infrastructure is overlooked:

http://eetweb.com/editorial/dont-tell-about-ev-0212/

 

There have been lots of transportation fuel "breakthroughs". Most are still looking for investors, and haven't got anything near volume production worked out.

Algae has been in the "should provide 50,000+ gallons per year per acre" for years, still don't see it. Desert plants growing 5000 gallons per year per acre would be viable (the next best is oil palm at ~700 gallons per year per acre). The veggie oil can be run through an oil creacking plant to extract diesel, gasoline, and propane - but it isn't.

http://www.virent.com/company has "developed" a way to convert sugar to premium gasoline. Still "looking for funding".

Lots of break throughs - nothing near ready for prime time.

 

??? HorsePowerHours is a unit usually used to measure the power of tractors but OK, let's take your figure of 131 HorsePowerHours. According to my research on this, one USA gallon of regular unleaded gas is equal to about 49 horsepower hours in heat units. In practical terms, about 80% of that is lost when it's burned through an engine so an automotive engine will produce only about 10 HP hours on a gallon of gas. 131 HP hours is the rough equivalent of 13 gallons of gas. Assuming a 450 mile range, that's about 35mpg. What do you find so "miraculous" about that?

 

In the OP, I mentioned that there have been a number of important advancements in battery technology recently. We started by looking at the new DBM Energy KOLIBRI battery because that one seems poised to take off the soonest but there a number of otrher pomising developments in the field of electical storage that have the potential to dramitically reduce the cost and recharge times while extenting the range of electrical vehicles. Let's look at some of them.

Better Batteries
New technology improves both energy capacity and charge rate in rechargeable batteries
Northwestern University NewsCenter - Research
November 14, 2011
(excerpts)
EVANSTON, Ill. --- Imagine a cellphone battery that stayed charged for more than a week and recharged in just 15 minutes. That dream battery could be closer to reality thanks to Northwestern University research. A team of engineers has created an electrode for lithium-ion batteries -- rechargeable batteries such as those found in cellphones and iPods -- that allows the batteries to hold a charge up to 10 times greater than current technology. Batteries with the new electrode also can charge 10 times faster than current batteries. The researchers combined two chemical engineering approaches to address two major battery limitations -- energy capacity and charge rate -- in one fell swoop. In addition to better batteries for cellphones and iPods, the technology could pave the way for more efficient, smaller batteries for electric cars. The technology could be seen in the marketplace in the next three to five years, the researchers said. A paper describing the research is published by the journal Advanced Energy Materials. “We have found a way to extend a new lithium-ion battery’s charge life by 10 times,” said Harold H. Kung, lead author of the paper. “Even after 150 charges, which would be one year or more of operation, the battery is still five times more effective than lithium-ion batteries on the market today.”


New battery design could give electric vehicles a jolt
Significant advance in battery architecture could be breakthrough for electric vehicles and grid storage.
MIT News Office
June 5, 2011
(excerpts)
A radically new approach to the design of batteries, developed by researchers at MIT, could provide a lightweight and inexpensive alternative to existing batteries for electric vehicles and the power grid. The technology could even make “refueling” such batteries as quick and easy as pumping gas into a conventional car. The new battery relies on an innovative architecture called a semi-solid flow cell, in which solid particles are suspended in a carrier liquid and pumped through the system. In this design, the battery’s active components — the positive and negative electrodes, or cathodes and anodes — are composed of particles suspended in a liquid electrolyte. These two different suspensions are pumped through systems separated by a filter, such as a thin porous membrane.

The new design should make it possible to reduce the size and the cost of a complete battery system, including all of its structural support and connectors, to about half the current levels. That dramatic reduction could be the key to making electric vehicles fully competitive with conventional gas- or diesel-powered vehicles, the researchers say. Another potential advantage is that in vehicle applications, such a system would permit the possibility of simply “refueling” the battery by pumping out the liquid slurry and pumping in a fresh, fully charged replacement, or by swapping out the tanks like tires at a pit stop, while still preserving the option of simply recharging the existing material when time permits.


Development boosts lithium-ion battery power by 8-fold
Researchers at Berkeley have developed a new kind of anode polymer can absorb eight times the lithium of current designs.
September 25, 2011
(excerpts)
A team of scientists at Berkeley Lab have designed a new kind of anode that can absorb eight times the lithium of current designs, and has maintained its greatly increased energy capacity after over a year of testing and many hundreds of charge-discharge cycles. The new anodes are made from low-cost materials, compatible with standard lithium-battery manufacturing technologies.


Much more to come....



Lithium–sulfur battery
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The lithium–sulfur battery (Li–S battery) is a rechargeable galvanic cell with a very high energy density.[3] By virtue of the low atomic weight of lithium and moderate weight of sulfur, Li–S batteries are relatively light; about the density of water. They were demonstrated on the longest and highest-altitude solar-powered airplane flight in August, 2008.[4] Lithium–sulfur batteries may succeed lithium-ion cells because of their higher energy density and the low cost of sulfur. There is much interest in using them for electric vehicles.

New Nanostructured Li2S/Silicon Rechargeable Battery with High Specific Energy
Stanford University
Nano Lett., 2010, 10 (4), pp 1486–1491
DOI: 10.1021/nl100504q
Publication Date (Web): February 25, 2010
Abstract
Rechargeable lithium ion batteries are important energy storage devices; however, the specific energy of existing lithium ion batteries is still insufficient for many applications due to the limited specific charge capacity of the electrode materials. The recent development of sulfur/mesoporous carbon nanocomposite cathodes represents a particularly exciting advance, but in full battery cells, sulfur-based cathodes have to be paired with metallic lithium anodes as the lithium source, which can result in serious safety issues. Here we report a novel lithium metal-free battery consisting of a Li2S/mesoporous carbon composite cathode and a silicon nanowire anode. This new battery yields a theoretical specific energy of 1550 Wh kg-1, which is four times that of the theoretical specific energy of existing lithium-ion batteries based on LiCoO2 cathodes and graphite anodes (410 Wh kg-1). The nanostructured design of both electrodes assists in overcoming the issues associated with using sulfur compounds and silicon in lithium-ion batteries, including poor electrical conductivity, significant structural changes, and volume expansion. We have experimentally realized an initial discharge specific energy of 630 Wh kg-1 based on the mass of the active electrode materials.



Speaking of energy density, these new batteries have a very high energy density. As the abstract says: "This new battery yields a theoretical specific energy of 1550 Wh kg-1". Compare that to a lead acid battery like the one in your car that can store about 30 Wh/kg, or one of the nickel-cadmium batteries that stores about 50 Wh/kg, or one of the nickel-metal hydride batteries that can store about 60 Wh/kg or a new lithium-ion EV battery that can reach about 200 Wh/kg.


***

 

I stand corrected.

When the Ford Probe was a concept car, it took 2.5HP to maintain 65MPH (without the exterior mirrors - they doubled the wind drag). 0.3HP is quite an improvement.

 

Advances in battery technology are popping up everywhere these days. That's because the intelligent people in science and finance could see some time ago that improved energy storage technology would be one of the key elements in creating our swiftly approaching future post-fossil fuels world. Here's word of another new development that promises to both increase the driving range of electrical vehicles and reduce the cost.

Envia Claims ‘Breakthrough’ in Lithium-Ion Battery Cost and Energy Density
The New York Times
February 26, 2012
(excerpts)
Envia Systems, a battery maker based in California, announced on Monday what it called a “major breakthrough” in lithium-ion cell technology that would result in a significant increase in the energy density — and a sharp reduction in the cost — of lithium-ion battery packs. Envia is financed by the Energy Department and G.M. Ventures, the venture-capital arm of General Motors, as well as other investors. “We will be able to make smaller automotive packs that are also less heavy and much cheaper,” Atul Kapadia, chairman and chief executive of Envia, said in a telephone interview. “The cost of cells will be less than half — perhaps 45 percent — of cells today, and the energy density will be almost three times greater than conventional automotive cells. What we have are not demonstrations, not experiments, but actual products. We could be in automotive production in a year and a half.”

Envia’s announcement said that its packs would deliver cell energy of 400 watt-hours per kilogram at a cost of $150 per kilowatt-hour. Though it doesn’t disclose a cost breakdown, Tesla Motors rates the energy density of its Roadster’s pack at 121 watt-hours per kilogram. Envia said its energy-density performance was verified in testing of prototype cells at the Naval Service Warfare Center’s Crane evaluation division.


***

 

When all you have is a hammer, then everything is a nail.

There aren't other drivers for improved batteries?

Maybe MP3/video players, Smart phones, GPS's, tablets, 8 hour laptop batteries, even battery power tools, and the rest of the ever increasing family of portable devices?

Or, clean power (via UPS/power conditioners) in 3 world manufacturing plants?

With the advent of lithium battery for power tools, model airplanes have shifted to battery power.

 

Sure there are but so what? This thread is about the future of transportation so improved batteries for EV's is an important theme. The electric vehicle market for batteries will almost certainly be one of the largest and most profitable in coming decades. Because of the importance of curbing pollution and CO2 emissions from the transportation sector, this area of research is one of those getting considerable governmental support for development both here in the USA and in a number of other countries.

 

The problem with batteries is that the technology has matured to its limits. Allesandro Volta invented the electrochemical battery in 1800. That's two centuries ago. A lot of people have worked on batteries for two centuries and unlike electronics the progress of the art has slowed to an incremental crawl. Unless nanotechnology drives a breakthrough, it is highly unlikely we'll see one in the near future.

livefree's NYT article stated that

quote:
"Envia is financed by the Energy Department and G.M. Ventures, the venture-capital arm of General Motors..."

Taxcutter says:
The pronouncements of two entities utterly dependent on taxpayer money are subject to intense question.



A true electric car is possible, if you choose the right niche. For people with a short commute (>10 miles) in a climate with few cold days a battery electric makes sense. But that is a very limited car and it justifies only a very limited price for the average Joe and Jane. Eight to ten thousand bucks, tops. Can you make a battery electric car that will profitably sell for $8,000?

The energy requirements for longer trips, higher payload and cold weather militate against the battery electric. Engineering is to a great extent all about scaling. Making a technology work over a wide range of scales is a tough order. Nuclear energy requires fairly large scale applications or VERY specialized application like nuclear submarines. Nuclear power does not scale down easily. Cordless drill batteries don't scale up well. Your local carpenter or plumber undoubtedly has cordless power tools and uses them a lot for small jobs, but you can bet they have a cord tool for the bigger jobs.

Since the housing bubble burst cars now cost a quarter to half what a good house can be had for. Battery cars demand that people pay an exorbitant amount of money for a vehicle that meets only a fraction of their transportation needs.

It is a far better alternative to use proven, off-the-shelf technology for another alternative use of electricity for transportation. Electric railroads have been around for over a century. the only drawback is their high capital cost, but for what got thrown down the GM rathole, you could have electrified a fair portion of America's freight railroads.

Once you electrified America's freight railroads converting a 300,000 barrel per day appetite for oil to electricity produced by stationary plants, you casn then begin to tackle the idea of converting long-haul trucks to "trolley assist" diesel-electric drive. this can already be seen in giant mining trucks.

Big mine haul trucks routinely go over 1,000 HP to allow them to haul huge loads up the steep grades in open-pit mines. Beyond 1,000 HP, mechanical transmissions become too fragile. IC-electric (almost always diesel-electric) drive is more robust and efficient but is heavy and expensive, but their durability and fuel-efficiency make them common choices for mine operators. the next step is "trolley-assisted" electric drive where the diesel engine is augmented by electricity from an overhead catenary line. the catenary is powered by a roadside stationary source. Thus the trucks can scamper up steep grades with heavy loads and by using regenerative braking to reduce overall energy outlay per haul cycle. This market is just opening up but seems to be of interest.

http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/Indus...solutions/Pages/AC-Solutions-Haul-Trucks.aspx

Now this has to be scaled down for over-the road trucks. Mine haul trucks are commonly 1,500 HP (making diesel electric attractive and trolley assist practical) where over the road truck engines are commonly about 600 HP with a few up to 800 HP.

Rather than have electric motors at the wheels like the big mine haul trucks or railroad locomotives, an electrically-assisted over-the-road truck would have an electric motor located between the clutch and the transmission. In local operations, the motor is just along for the ride, but in a long-haul scenario, the trucker drives onto the electrified Interstate highway under diesel power, then extends his collection trolley and goes on roadside-generated electric power and clutches out his diesel and shuts it off, running on utility power. a roadside data collection system allows the trucker to be billed for electricity used.

Straight electric works for transportation with existing technology. Battery powered cars require technological breakthroughs from a very mature technology and limited-niche vehicles.

Forget the battery clown cars and go for electrified railroads and long-haul trucks.

 

Just more meaningless drivel and nonsense.

TC claims that "The problem with batteries is that the technology has matured to its limits." and "the progress of the art has slowed to an incremental crawl". LOLOLOLOLOLOL. I'm not sure what planet TC lives on but on this planet those statements are utterly insane, false-to-fact bits of fossil fuel industry propaganda. This whole thread so far has been about the very real and significant advances in battery technology that are happening right now. Electric vehicles don't need the "right niche", nor are they going to have a "limited range". Electric vehicles are inherently more efficient than IC engine vehicles so, according to what has been demonstrated with these new battery technologies, the range of EVs will soon exceed the range of regular cars but with a great savings on the cost of the 'fuel'. Within a decade, most of the gasoline powered vehicles will be gone from the roadways and almost everyone will be driving electric vehicles that are far cheaper to run and maintain than IC engine cars.

 

You can lie to me.

I know better.

The sad thing is you lie to yourself.

 

The last major breakthrough that is on the market is high current lithium batteries. Prior to that, lithium for laptops and cell phone, prior to that nickel metal hydride.

Other batteries technologies have been experimented with, but until they hit volume production, their cost, performance, and safety, is a guess.

 

I think things are much more optimistic than that. I don't think you understand that this stuff is already happening. The DBM KOLIBRI batteries have been in use in warehouse forklifts for over two years and proved reliable and very efficient. Those batteries will probably be showing up in cars very soon. Did you miss this statement by the CEO of Envia in post #11?

 

I was just thinking that a thread about the future of transportation wouldn't be really complete without a look at some of the current 'visions of the future' that auto designers have come up with. All electric vehicles, of course. Without the need for a big engine, cooling system, transmission, etc., the designs for the new electric vehicles are bound to be somewhat different from current IC engine cars. Designers are just starting to play with the possibilities. It may be that none of these designs here will ever go into production but even if they don't, some of design innovations pictured here will probably wind up being used in some way. Some of them are pretty cool looking at any rate.

Renault’s Juicy Concept: Super-Quick-Charging Electric Car
(excerpts)

French auto manufacturer Renault will soon unveil an electric car that will take less time to charge than your mobile phone (with the right kind of outlet) and get you to work and back several times over before needing a charge. The DeZir design is set to be introduced at the Paris Motor Show in October, and from the teaser images Renault has released, it’ll be a beauty. The DeZir will charge in just 20 minutes with a 400V outlet, or eight hours with a standard household outlet. It will go from zero to 62MPH in just five seconds and will be able to reach a top speed of 112MPH. But of course, one of the most striking aspects of the design is the beautiful body. The interior boasts a “cocoon-like” atmosphere, and the gull wing doors add a bit more futurism to an already-impressive design.


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Eccentric Electric: Cute, Nimble All-Electric Peugeot City Car
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With the electric car revolution has come a slew of beautiful new vehicles…and some that are more odd than anything. But this concept from Portuguese designer Tiago Alves might be the most unusually-shaped electric car ever. It’s called the Peugeot 1001, and despite looking a bit like some kind of office equipment it’s slated to be an efficient, agile commuter car. The 1001 isn’t meant for cross-country road trips; rather, it’s geared toward the commuter who doesn’t travel very far every day but doesn’t want to ride a bicycle to work. The car has eight electric motors that operate four agile “wheels,” which are actually spheres that offer the vehicle unparalleled driving flexibility. It’s these spherical, magnetically-controlled wheels that allow the car to spin around in circles effortlessly…if you enjoy that sort of thing.

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Smartest Car of All? MIT’s CityCar Makes Real-World Debut
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They’ve been talking about it for years, but now MIT has finally done it: they have unveiled their tiny, folding city car. Previously referred to simply as “CityCar,” the automobile was introduced as “Hiriko” to the European Union Commission chief in Brussels in mid-January, 2012. The name means “from the city” in Basque, and it’s clear that this tiny electric automobile is definitely meant for city streets. Hiriko has a 60-mile range and does away with the centralized motor; instead, each wheel has its own drive motor. It also does away with doors, instead offering entrance and egress through its upward-opening windshield. When you park the car, its rear wheels scoot up a bit toward the front wheels, folding the car into a much smaller size so that three of them can fit into a standard parking space.

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(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)

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Real-Life Transformer? Car Folds in Half to Fit Parking Spots
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Two of the problems facing the cities of the future will be overcrowding and pollution. In fact, the cities of today are already starting to experience these issues. British designer Daniel Bailey wants to cut down on those problems with an eco-friendly sports car that takes up far less parking space than the typical car. The BRB Evolution car would look just like a normal sports car when it’s driving down the street, but the spectacular part comes in when the car is parked. After all of the passengers are out of the car, the front end folds down and the rear wheels tuck underneath the car. The middle section of the car raises up a bit and in the end, the car takes up half the space it did before. The car will run on electricity or hydrogen, cutting down on its environmental impact. But unlike other “green” cars, this one will look sleek, sexy and “mean.”


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The Tiny Electric Car that Drives Like a Real-Life VideoGame
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Electric cars are becoming a bigger concern for car companies every year...Toyota decided to more or less reinvent the layout of a car. Their four-person FT-EV II was first unveiled at the Tokyo Auto Show in 2009, then brought to the US for the North American International Auto Show. Its exterior is pretty typical of what we’ve come to expect of electric car concepts, but the interior is just mind-boggling. It does away with a traditional steering wheel, gas pedal and brake pedal; in their place is a crazy futuristic joystick system that bears more than a passing resemblance to spaceship controls.


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(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)

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Nissan Pivo 2
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This interesting little bubble is the Nissan Pivo 2 concept: a battery-powered two-passenger commuter car that can have conversations with its occupants in Japanese or English. The cabin rotates 360 degrees, making a reverse gear obsolete, and the wheels rotate 90 degrees for getting into and out of tight parking spaces.

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Peugeot concept - The Moovie
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We’ve seen at least one excitingly futuristic (if not entirely official) Peugeot concept before, but this one may be even more far-reaching. The Moovie was the winning entry in a design competition held by the car company for cars they might produce in the year 2020. Portuguese designer Andre Costa came up with the Moovie, an agile electric car with styling so futuristic it’s almost alien. A non-working prototype was built for the 2005 Frankfurt Auto Show.

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The Chinese Tan Hua line
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If the Oscar Meyer Weinermobile, Dr. Seuss’ crazy vehicles, and those weird cars from Babes in Toyland all got together and had babies, they would look like the Chinese Tan Hua line. The electric “neighborhood cars” made an appearance at the 2008 Detroit Auto Show, drawing chuckles and amused stares from attendees. But what drew even more laughter was a note on one of the cars suggesting that “renowned environmentalists” George W. Bush buy one for his Texas ranch.

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(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)

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Lighten Up: Ultra-Light Car Is a Commuter Compromise
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Automobile design is definitely leaning toward electric vehicle design these days, so it makes sense that designers would start thinking about refining and changing the typical EV design. The Ultra Light Electric Vehicle concept from designer Chris Daisy would weigh a mere 600 pounds – or about one-quarter of the weight of small gas-powered cars. The reduced weight is intended to extend the range of the vehicle, making it cheaper to operate. There are a number of surprising design features that could set the ULEV apart from every other electric car on the market. The car can be driven from either side thanks to a central joystick that sits between the two seats. Buttons on the joystick are programmable and can be operated by voice, encouraging the driver to keep his or her attention on the road at all times. Each of the wheels features its own individual motor and internal disc brake. Every component is made of lightweight carbon fiber to cut down on the overall weight of the vehicle. When the weather is nice, the removable doors can be easily stored behind the seats to allow the driver and passenger a bicycle-like drive. In the passenger compartment, futuristic entertainment features will make the twice-daily commute fun rather than a chore.



[/i](In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)[/i]

 

According to this guy, it is exactly the improvements in batteries that stops people from buying electric cars, no resale value.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/why-electric-car-doomed-fail-150050289.html

In my case, my electricity cost is so high, gasoline is cheaper per mile, ven with wunderbattery. Because 1/3 of my bill is the power I use, 2/3's is "line lease". Installing enough PV to zero out electricity use doesn't help, because they generate power when I'm at work.

With electric cars, the new peak hours will be between 7PM and 7AM. Unless companies are forced to provide charging stations for their employees, electric cars will increase fossil fuel use.

Did you see the article I posted about the electric company charging people to upgrade the transformer on the pole?

I have read / heard / watched all kinds of CEO's tout their world saving green energy breakthroughs. I have yet to see one reach volume manufacturing.

As far as all the pretty cars, their only value, is the same value the Prius has - self promotion "I care enough to buy a green car". You want green, the best option today is a turbo diesel Jetta.

 

livefree posts clown cars.

If people didn't want the Chevy Volt, why would they want to shell out good money for fugitive from a Shriners' parade?

 

You seem very misinformed and clueless. As usual. Have all of the EV improvements highlighted in this thread just gone in your one ear and out the other? Why wouldn't people "shell out good money" for for the next-gen electric cars that are mechanically simpler and thus easier and cheaper to maintain, cars that are much cheaper to operate (a few dollars of electricity vs 40 bucks or so worth of gasoline, with the price of gas continuing to rise for the foreseeable future), cars with batteries that charge in minutes, cars that you can 'fuel' yourself with a solar and/or wind power system? We're looking at freedom from the ever rising gas prices that are sending our national wealth to foreign countries who don't like us and use the money against us. We're looking at the possibility of true energy independence on both a national level and a personal level. In spite of your silly denial, people will indeed line up to buy these newer electic cars when they are on the market in a few years. Right now, knowing what is coming very soon, I wouldn't buy a Volt either but not because of your phony panic over non-existent fires. Rather because these limited range expensive batteries now in use will soon be replaced by smaller, cheaper and much more powerful batteries that will extent the range of the car to 3 or 4 hundred miles. Electric vehicles are so superior to fossil fueled internal combustion engine vehicles in so many ways that switching over will very soon begin to seem both obvious and inevitable to most people.