The Great (and Not-So-Great) Revolutions

Discussion in 'History and Culture' started by Talon, Jun 6, 2023.

  1. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Over the past couple years I've been reading a lot about the major revolutions of the Modern Era and I've been intrigued by the different reactions people have had to these pivotal events that continue to impact our lives, so I thought I'd open a thread on the subject and let it go where it may.

    When first approaching this, I've always fascinated with how people look back on History and categorize it to suit whatever purposes they have in mind. For example, many historians mark the advent of the so-called "Age of Revolution" with either the American or French revolutions, but for the sake of this discussion I'm going to begin with the revolution in England that toppled King Charles I, aka the Great Rebellion or English Civil War. While the aspirations of the republicans in England - the Levellers, e.g., John Lilburne, Richard Overton, William Walwyn, et al - were thwarted by Oliver Cromwell and his upper class allies in the New Model Army and Parliament, they did lay the groundwork for the Glorious Revolution of 1688-89 that established the primacy of Parliament over the Crown. Eventually, the ideas that emerged from the Great Rebellion and Glorious Revolution and were expressed by Radical Whigs such as Algernon Sydney and John Locke would make their way across the Atlantic where they inspired the revolutionaries in America, who in turn inspired the revolutionaries in France who inspired the revolutionaries in other countries, most notably the revolutionaries in Russia. Thus, for the sake of this discussion, the Great and Not-So-Great Revolutions I have in mind are the English, American, French and Russian Revolutions. Of course, we could include more examples, such as the revolutions that took place during the tumultuous year of 1848, or perhaps the ones that brought independence to India and communism to China. One might also consider the revolutions that occurred even more recently, when the people of Central and Eastern Europe liberated themselves from the yoke of Communism during the late 1980s and early 1990s.

    Having established somewhat of a framework, the next things that come to my mind involve the assessments of these revolutions - which one (if any) was the greatest, which one was the worst, which one(s) had the most impact? - and how have they effected our own lives. These are the questions I would be interested to explore here if anyone is interested.

    As for myself, and being an American I'll be the first to confess my bias, I consider the American Revolution the greatest of these revolutions, particularly since it ended, albeit imperfectly, with the establishment of what is today the world's oldest existing democratic republic (or constitutional democratic republic, if you prefer). As for the worst of the major revolutions, I award that dubious distinction to the Bolshevik Revolution, with the French coming in a close second. As for the most influential, I'm inclined to believe that the American and French revolutions had the most impact.

    That being said, I think we might ask an additional question - which one is the most controversial? - and I think the clear winner is the French Revolution. Nowhere else will you find a revolution that elicits such sharply different views. On one hand, we see the self-styled "Modern Jacobins" on the Left who look on the "Great French Revolution" with admiration. On the other, we have seen since Burke's Reflections, people looking on the Reign of Terror (and genocide in the Vendée), the revolution's demise in dictatorship and the inspiration it provided the Socialist-Communist mass murderers of the 20th Century with revulsion. Then you have people who look at it with a more nuanced eye and see a revolution that began with so much astonishing promise but ended in failure and tragedy.

    Needless to say, most if not all of these revolutions have had their good, bad and incomplete sides, and that's part of what makes them so interesting. In many cases, the revolutions continue as people confront the dual challenges of living up to the lofty ideals expressed by the founders of their nations and struggle to ensure that their governments don't violate the rights and freedom they were instituted to secure.

    I'd be interested to hear whatever anyone else thinks about these events and whatever else comes to mind, and with that I will conclude the Opening Post.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2023
  2. Matthew D Bossman

    Matthew D Bossman Newly Registered

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    While the violent revolutions (aka wars of independence) are the most common ones lumped in here, I personally find the industrial revolution the most compelling of the lot.

    The shift from hand fashioned goods to machine production goods had a monumental impact on the economic trajectory of not only people but countries.

    Personal (micro) Impacts

    The ability to produce large quantities of arguably very consistent (and in many cases better) quality afforded people the ability to explore other life aspects. It shifted the population from rural agrarian areas to urban manufacturing areas. This concentration created a critical mass to accelerate research, development and adoption of new products and services. This, in turn, accelerated the growth, expansion and development of "new" wealth as people invented and innovated.

    Additionally, the introduction of machinery that could easily out produce manual individual labor which, arguably, put slave labor on a downward trajectory in many parts of the world.

    Country (macro) Impacts

    Countries widened their search, location and exploitation of raw materials and resources. The implications of this included shrinking the world, widening contact amongst cultures and the beginning of homogenization of cultures as countries imported and adopted cultural aspects of their trading/colonization partners.
     
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  3. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's definitely an interesting thought, and along the same lines one could consider the somewhat similar revolutions that preceded it, such as the Medieval Agricultural and Commercial Revolutions that transformed life in the West during the High Middle Ages.

    However, getting back to the Industrial Revolution, you'll find that it played a role in some of the revolutions I mentioned above, most particularly the revolutions that swept Europe in 1848. As Mike Rapport pointed out in his book 1848: The Year of Revolution, Continental Europe was entering the Industrial Revolution at that time but the benefits of industrialization had yet to reach the vast majority of workers who were experiencing its negative impacts. As reluctant as I am to quote Wikipedia, it does a fair job of explaining how the Industrial Revolution contributed to the revolutions of 1848:

    It was also during this time that the term "socialism" was coined in reference to the socio-economic problems of the "working class" and the responses to those problems, and it was in 1848 that Karl Marx published The Communist Manifesto.

    It has also been argued that the advent of the Industrial Revolution in England contributed to the Glorious Revolution, as well. The disputes over the direction of English economy created significant friction between the Crown, which still held to the feudalistic belief that wealth was tied to land (and the aristocracy that who owned it), and the Whigs in Parliament who recognized other means of creating wealth and the role government should play in promoting and developing those means.

    While people naturally tend to focus on the economic aspects of the Industrial Revolution, clearly had a much broader impact that extended into the realms of politics, philosophy and ideology.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2023
  4. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    IDK. While never framed as such, I suspect we are living through the end of the public welfare revolution here in America. It really came into being to neuter a growing socialist movement in the late 1800's into the early 1900's when "Christian charity" continued to fail to render basic subsistence. I think it has become too much a political vote-buying tool by both sides be it poor people welfare or corporate welfare. I think we have maxed out our ability to continue on with it.

    As for the American revolution, I am an American and I don't really see it as a revolution. He were already just about the freest place on earth. It was lead by merchants who wanted to evade taxes and as soon as it was over we started driving anybody who wasn't on the team out of the new states. We institutionalized slavery, slaughtered native americans, and were totally dependent on the French for our protection (perhaps the Prussians as well). I mean I generally support the constitution as it is aspirational but most of the framers were closer to devils than saints in my book.
     

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