The growing authoritarianism and totalitarianism on the left & right.

The growing authoritarianism and totalitarianism on the left and right.

Every time I hear calls from the left or right for a national divorce I hear a call for totalitarianism. When I hear one side generalize about how the other is the problem I hear authoritarianism. Those that think a national divorce would lead to a healthy democracy in their preferred zone are ignorant about human nature and confuse authoritarianism or totalitarianism for democracy. Is a homogeneous society like North Korea which calls itself a republic really a republic? Of course not! Neither would a homogeneous leftist or conservative zone. Democracy breeds variety while authoritarianism limits it and both sides are doing all they to maximize their own freedom while doing all they can to oppress the other.

Our Forefathers have given us all a chance to live free from authoritarianism or totalitarianism and we are messing it all up with this us vs them bias. The left is not as virtuous as they think they are and neither is the right. Both make mountains out of molehills and then lose their minds when they other does the same. So much of the daily drama in this country is unnecessary, harmful and avoidable if only we could all be as critical of self and our tribe as we are of those that oppose us.

Want to make America great, then call out the corruption and hypocrisy of your side. This first requires a humbling look at self when it is easier to just blame others. We are all part of the problem and have the potential to be part of a solution that brings us closer to the ideal of democracy. As it is we are rapidly heading towards authoritarianism or totalitarianism on both sides.

Patriotism should not be limited to those that agree with us in a democracy or representative republic.

 

I called for the Republicans to dump Trump. I really don’t know what else I can do. The Republicans have too often been the weak side that gives way.

You will not hear any Democrats call for a pause in their relentless pursuit of power. Biden is only a tool in their quest. The Democrat government was complete control of the system, and their advocates, like Bill Gates and George Soros, are spending their considerable wealth to consolidate control.

 

IMHO, the days of bipartisan problem-solving are over.

Why?

Because we've run out of problems to fix that don't also require taking a partisan stance to fix them. The solutions require taking one side or the other on how to fix things and sticking to it.

 

Yeah, you're only half right there. I'm not seeing any authoritarianism or totalitarianism on the left.

Unless you wanna show us some examples?

 

Two problems with the lesser evil. 1) Each side says the other side is worse thus revealing the biased subjective nature of picking the lesser evil. 2) To side with a subjectively assessed lesser evil is to side with evil.

What else can you do? Are you a Republican or loyal to conservatism? If so quit supporting them, vote 3rd party. After I abandoned my loyalty to the right it made it much easier for me to see just how corrupt the right is and that the left was not as bad as I thought they were. The rose colored glasses of political loyalty returns skewed version of reality. Today I have a much more balanced and realistic view of the left and right, which is why I am unable to support either. I am in the market for a 3rd party as a vote for team red or blue is a vote for a continuation of the bias and corruption I stand against.

You speak of powerbrokers on the left but do you also take issue with the powerbrokers on the right? Is it OK for one but not the other? Both play the game of brinksmanship and seek to game the system to their advantage in order to raise themselves and oppress the other.

Republicans and Democrats are two peas in the same pod, slaves to the same human nature that they find disturbing in the other but are oblivious to in self.

 

Vote third party? I may as well stay home.

“The left is not as bad as I thought they were”

Nonsense. You are here to weaken the conservative cause. Good bye.

 

Our Forefathers fought for nothing then if we are to abandon democracy and embrace totalitarianism.

I see the solution as getting real and embracing the horror that neither side is as virtuous as they like to believe and that the other is not as bad as believed to be. Human nature gets in the way. Tribalism skews our perspective and makes us that which we oppose. Oppose cancel culture? Both sides engage in it but each only take issue with it when it is injurious to their tribe. Same thing with PC, wokeism and all the other ironically applied labels. As a species we love to preach but are not so good at the practicing part. Each side needs to get their own house in order and see how each is often guilty of doing that which they stand against.

What am I doing to get my house in order? I have abandoned loyalty to all authoritarian systems such as religion, government and political ideologies. Loyalty to said systems biases which skews our perspective leading us to errantly believe that the other is the problem. In reality human nature is the problem and said nature is systemic.

 

I am here to strengthen our Republic. Voting for the status quo ensures its continuation. It is time for the rise of a third party. You may see me as on the side of the left when in reality I reject both political parties for being corrupt and morally and ethically bankrupt.

Time for a real change.

 

Well try this thread.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...isinformation-governance-board-report.599807/

See who is for a "disinformation board" and who's against it.

 

Yeah, that was just made up crap from conservatives who didn't understand the purpose or powers of the board.

Or possibly they were just lying about it. They are republicans after all.

Gotta find something that's real. Imaginary evidence won't hold up in any court, even the court of opinion.

 

Oh I think we all understood the purpose of the board. But this little admission of yours does in fact show the authoritarianism of the left, and it sounds like you signed on for it.

Thank you for your cooperation in this little thought experiment!

 

No, ya don't.

 

I can, but you will likely reject them just as examples of authoritarianism on the right will be rejected by those on the right that say they support democracy. Frankly if you really want to see the authoritarian/totalitarian streak on the left, create a thread and ask conservatives for examples. They will probably be better at pointing them out than I as they obsess over them.

But here is the authoritarianism/totalitarianism I see in the left. Those on the left that call for a National divorce. Liberals ostracized for not towing the party line. Common talking points that are cherry picked and reject disconfirming evidence. A push for socialism by some and I am not talking democratic socialism. My way or the highway mentality. With us or against us. Hyper fixation on the flaws of the right coupled with and ignorance of like negative on the left. 40+ percent of the left seeing the right as immoral while being oblivious to like immorality within the left. Scatterplot showing the ever growing partisan divide leading to the gridlock we see today. All the books I read on social psychology often written by liberals that detail how our tribal nature leads to the partisan us vs them mentally of political groups. The nearly complete lack of cooperation between congressional Republicans and Democrats.

Authoritarianism or totalitarianism in a nutshell is political homogeneity, the former being lesser so and the latter being complete. Each side wants to force their culture on the other. It becomes about domination rather than cooperation. We blame the other side for being unreasonable and impossible to talk to when our side is the same. You said it, I am half right. Partisans on the right will agree with you but say it is the left that is totalitarian. From my POV both are as neither has an appetite for introspection and prefers to place blame on the other. That favors authoritarianism as opposed to democracy which requires cooperation and humility.

And after all that did I change your mind? Of course not! Why? Because our tribalistic loyalties make being objective about the side we are loyal to all but impossible. I can recommend some good books on social psychology if you like. Or you can just continue on in life thinking that the other side is the problem.

Pardon my cynicism. 25 years of political debate has left me with little reason to be hopeful that the two sides can act in America’s collective interest.

 

Sorry, there’s only one Party that’s weaponizing our government and persecuting the opposition while condoning and encouraging their radicalized mob to riot, loot and burn. There’s only one Party whose leader is bought and paid for by China. There’s only one Party that is for open borders.

Democrat Party is pro-drugs, pro-human trafficking, pro-cartel, pro-crime, and as virulently anti-American as any group has ever been. They want our military emasculated, our police emasculated, and our young literally emasculated.

They shoot up baseball fields of republicans. They attempt assassinations on our Supreme Court justices and elected politicians in broad daylight. They target police and anyone else they don’t like.

They are a thug, criminal party, most corrupt entity in our country and they need to be dismantled as a viable political organization.


This isn’t authoritarian of me. It’s simply the fight we are in to keep this country from being destroyed.

 

The left calls for a divorce, the right calls for civil war. Sorry but only one side is calling for the use of deadly force and it ain't the left.

 

Banning guns for civilians that the cops can use those same guns to keep civilians from having.

 

I have seen members on both sides call for a National divorce. Not sure I have seen the left call for civil war, but think it unlikely that none of the 10s of millions on the left never have. I have seen members of both sides engage in deadly political violence. Just because we tend not to see it in our preferred side does not mean it does not happen. If it is wrong for one then it is wrong for all.

 

Greedy Corporations want to control us, and they are doing it bit by bit

Excessive foreign imports and excessive foreign outsourcing and soon AI, will be the end of the USA as we know it

 

Asked.

Answered!

 

Way too over-generalized, and vaguely defined, for me to offer much specific counter argument, or agreement. I think you are making a false equivalence, between Dems & Repubs, but without your giving concrete examples, most of my response would need be based on only guesses about your perspective.

One suggestion I would make, though, is that you clearly separate the two levels, upon which you are making your points, between politicians and citizens. For example, one of the specifics you do offer, is of "the left or right" calling for a "national divorce." I am not aware of any Democratic politician, calling for such a thing. There are only even a couple of Republicans in Congress, who've suggested such an idea (MTG, being one of them). Among the populace, though, of course there are some on both sides who feel this way. I regard it, though, as a small minority. I may be mistaken about that, but without any data from you, showing it to be a more common view, and quantifying the proportions of different parts of the political spectrum, where this sentiment resides, there does not seem much to say about it, other than of course, that at this point, believing that might occur, is an utterly impractical, unrealistic idea (other than, hypothetically, through another Civil War, with the military cleaving along partisan lines-- which seems a highly improbable expectation).

While I do believe in the overall benefits of a pluralistic society and, more to the point, realize that this is what we have here, I would have to challenge your statement that homogeneity only leads to authoritarianism. The example of Denmark, dramatically disproves that argument.

One can align oneself with a side, without becoming a hypocrite-- though that is not the common result, I will grant you. Lastly, I would question your line, "When I hear one side generalize about how the other is the problem I hear authoritarianism." Again, more detail would be helpful here, to understand exactly your implication: that one side, never is "the problem?" Or perhaps you had meant the word "generalize," to distinguish your meaning; but that word is a bit too ambiguous, to really handle the job.

 

And where has this happened?

 

WA state is the most recent example.

 

I know that people who supported the Disinformation board politically run from authoritarian to totalitarian, so yes I understand perfectly.

And you do too.

 

I think they were asking for policy positions on the left that make you call them authoritarian.

The only one I can think of off hand is the vaccine stuff but that wouldn’t have been an issue if it hadn’t been politicized as much.

On the right we have pushed to ban medical treatment and medicine, pushes to ban books, banning topics, to banning children attending events with parental supervision, installing hyper partisans to school boards to “remake” then, censoring representatives, massive gerrymandering attempts and successes, removing power from newly elected governors or courts because they are Democratic, refusing to make voter registration automatic, ignoring blatant corruption in their hand picked justices selected through conservative organizations and think tanks… and the list keeps going. Now there are efforts to take children from parents if their child is trans and they identify them as such, this is happening to a lawmaker now.

The left want people to have healthcare and education.
Granted some of their stuff is a tad far like the trans sports issues but what policy positions are you talking about exactly?

 

They banned guns in WA?