The Lie of Cheap Renewable Energy

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Jack Hays, Mar 19, 2023.

  1. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,282
    Likes Received:
    17,883
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  2. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,282
    Likes Received:
    17,883
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    New York Urgently Needs To Confront the Contradiction of Trying To Electrify Everything While Also Eliminating Fossil Fuels
    September 13, 2023/ Francis Menton

    • In New York, politicians are selling the public a narrative that electricity is going to be the solution to climate change.

    • We will eliminate all CO2 emissions by banning gasoline-powered cars, banning natural gas infrastructure, banning gas heat in buildings, and banning gas for cooking. All of these are to be replaced with supposedly “green,” emissions-free, alternatives – which in practice consist of only one thing, electricity. We’ve been told that this is how we are going to protect the planet for future generations.

    • But there is nothing emissions-free about the way electricity is currently generated in New York. About half of our electricity comes now, as it traditionally has, from burning fossil fuels.

    • New York has announced plans to eliminate those from electricity generation by 2030, but as of now has no realistic plan to replace them. Meanwhile, it is forcing its citizens to convert essential systems like heating to electricity, with no basis to believe that the electricity will be available to prevent people from freezing in the winter only a few years from now.

    • This is a glaring contradiction, that needs urgently to be addressed before we suffer a self-inflicted catastrophe.
    READ MORE
     
    bringiton likes this.
  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    151,105
    Likes Received:
    63,343
    Trophy Points:
    113
    at least you admit that, I agree
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2023
  4. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,282
    Likes Received:
    17,883
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    There's nothing to admit. It's like saying water is wet.
     
    Mrs. b. and Sunsettommy like this.
  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    151,105
    Likes Received:
    63,343
    Trophy Points:
    113
    same here, but many won't admit that
     
  6. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,282
    Likes Received:
    17,883
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not aware of that.
     
  7. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,282
    Likes Received:
    17,883
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  8. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,282
    Likes Received:
    17,883
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    To believe in renewable energy you have to stop believing in mathematics (or even arithmetic).
    L A Times “Green China” Latest News
    Guest Blogger
    …each operating for 25 years to save an amount of coal equivalent to the yearly increase of China’s coal use just between 2021 and 2022. . . .
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  9. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,282
    Likes Received:
    17,883
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ddyad likes this.
  10. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,282
    Likes Received:
    17,883
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ddyad likes this.
  11. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,563
    Likes Received:
    25,517
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Fake Science + Payola = Another Big Boondoggle

    "The Berkeley Lab report, like the NREL report, focuses primarily on the cost of wind power to the wind project developer. While expenses faced by wind project developers are an important element of the overall cost of wind power, addition of wind power to the power grid involves a number of other costs. If a more reasonable estimate of the installed cost of capital is $88 per MWh and operating costs are $21 per MWh, we can estimate a reasonable LCOE for wind power near $109 per MWh rather than NREL’s estimate of $72 — a more than 50 percent increase. Such costs include the expense of transmission expansions needed to develop wind power, other grid integration expenses, and added grid reliability expenses. Both the costs to the developer and the other costs are examined in this study."
    INSTITUTE FOR ENERGY RESEARCH, Assessing Wind Power Cost Estimates, By, Dr. Michael Giberson, 11/13.
    https://instituteforenergyresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Giberson-study-Final.pdf

    Abandoned wind towers will eventually have to join statues of Confederate Generals in the dustbin of history's worst mistakes.
     
    Jack Hays likes this.
  12. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,282
    Likes Received:
    17,883
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ddyad likes this.
  13. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,282
    Likes Received:
    17,883
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ddyad likes this.
  14. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,282
    Likes Received:
    17,883
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ddyad likes this.
  15. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,563
    Likes Received:
    25,517
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Jack Hays likes this.
  16. Vitaliy

    Vitaliy Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    43
    It is necessary not to develop green energy, but to reduce the population on the planet. And in undeveloped countries. In Europe, its population is almost not increasing, but there is a huge growth due to Africa and Asia. They need more and more energy and food, so no matter how much you save, consumption will grow. And in the end, people will devour the whole planet, only rats and cockroaches will remain.

    Did you know that Easter Island was once covered with forests? And when the Europeans discovered it, there was not a single tree left - the overgrown population of the island cut them all down for firewood.
     
    Mrs. b. and Sunsettommy like this.
  17. Pieces of Malarkey

    Pieces of Malarkey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2022
    Messages:
    2,636
    Likes Received:
    1,577
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So saying it another way, what's necessary to reduce climate change is to kill off the surplus population. And who gets to decide who the surplus population is? Rich people like you apparently.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2023
    Bowerbird likes this.
  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    92,837
    Likes Received:
    74,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    China beat you to it. Population growth is slowing over most of Asia and indeed the world

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/...-growth-is-slowing-down-heres-one-reason-why/
     
    Melb_muser likes this.
  19. Vitaliy

    Vitaliy Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Don't fantasize! I did not write that it is necessary to physically destroy the population. I meant that it is necessary to reduce the birth rate.

    If the population of the earth grows unnecessarily, then in any case it will be physically destroyed, not by me, but by other people in the struggle for food.
     
  20. Vitaliy

    Vitaliy Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    43
  21. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    92,837
    Likes Received:
    74,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Yes! But the first step, unless you want to start a pogrom, is to reduce the “replacement rate”. Smaller families and for that the first thing we need to do is drown all those “religious leaders” encouraging followers to out breed other religions. (And it ain’t just the Catholics)

    we also have to accept the consequences. China has just hit a wall. The property market just crashed because there was not the younger market to buy, the population is ageing which means not only those people are lost to the workforce but often an offspring is lost as a career.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2023/01/18/china/china-population-drop-explainer-intl-hnk/index.html#:~:text=The country's population fell in,Tuesday briefing on annual data.

    You want to reduce the population? Overturn abortion restrictions worldwide
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2023
  22. Vitaliy

    Vitaliy Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Of course it is necessary to reduce the population. Instead of introducing quotas for CO2, it is necessary to introduce quotas for population size. We need a new worldwide agreement.

    And it is necessary to help poor countries both in regulating the birth rate and in raising the standard of living so that they do not emigrate to richer countries. Then the problem of mass immigration will be solved by itself.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2023
  23. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    92,837
    Likes Received:
    74,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Okay you have just identified the one issue MORE unpopular than CO2 reduction

    You have done bugger all research on this as far as I can tell - I might be wrong but so far….. shakes head
    Now I am going to point you in a direction and give you something to think about

    What use is reducing the population if the remaining population produces more CO2 per person? It is called a “Carbon Footprint
    https://www.nature.org/en-us/get-involved/how-to-help/carbon-footprint-calculator/
    Get back to me AFTER you have read the rest of that article and done further research
     
    Melb_muser likes this.
  24. Vitaliy

    Vitaliy Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Understand what I want to say: it is impossible to significantly reduce consumption per 1 person if we want to maintain the existing standard of living. It is impossible to reduce CO2 emissions tenfold. And besides CO2 emissions, there are dozens of other factors: the amount of food per person, the amount of water, the amount of clothing, the amount of cultivated land, the amount of fish produced, and so on - you can list endlessly. And since these needs are now quite low in poor countries, they will only grow, which means that the total volume of consumption will grow as the product of population growth multiplied by the growth of each person's needs. So only green energy will not save our planet!
     
  25. Vitaliy

    Vitaliy Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    43
    And one more thing: now all countries are competing who has the most economic growth. But economic growth means increased exploitation of the planet's resources. This is crazy! It's time for us to fight not for economic growth, but for the reduction of economies!
     

Share This Page