The living wage.

Discussion in 'Political Science' started by Brett Nortje, May 25, 2017.

  1. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,075
    Likes Received:
    1,212
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Then you're going to need more than 1530 separate minimum wages, since there are more than 1530 separately functioning economies in the US

    So you're going to unjustly enrich some people, while other people have to remain on public assistance Welfare Programs.

    Businesses cannot "just raise prices."

    Businesses first have to do a study on Price Elasticity to determine how elastic their pricing scheme is and whether or not there are available substitutes.

    Increasing prices may result in one of the following:

    1] Revenues increase and profits increase
    2] Revenues increase and profits remain neutral
    3] Revenues increase and profits decrease
    4] Revenues decrease and profits decrease

    If that doesn't motivate people to better themselves by acquiring new skills which enhance their employment, then what will?

    Then let Free Market Economics reign supreme. The Free Market is the perfect solution to the issue of wages and everything else.
     
  2. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    10,833
    Likes Received:
    4,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I prefer the status quo and think we should just have one minimum wage. If you believe we should have 1530 minimum wages then you are welcome to make your case for that idea.

    I believe in justice only in so far as it promotes the common good. If a minimum wage is "unjust" then it sounds like you are a libertarian and are against any form of government assistance.

    But what you are leaving out is that the minimum wage will affect the whole industry. It isn't just one company raising its prices, its all of them. Do you have any evidence that hikes on the minimum wage have any impact on businesses overall?

    If everyone improved their skills then there would just be more demand for those high-skill jobs and there will be losers who will be forced into low-skills jobs. Even if this didn't happen the lack of labor in low-skill jobs would mean that employers in these industries would have a tough time filling positions and would have to offer higher salaries, which is basically the same functionally as a minimum wage.

    Its not a percent solution. Look at all the oligopolies, the 2008 crash, income inequality, and environmental problems. I believe in a free market but with simple and reasonable protections for consumers and workers.
     
    Grumblenuts likes this.
  3. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    12,744
    Likes Received:
    3,136
    Trophy Points:
    113
     
  4. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,075
    Likes Received:
    1,212
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I already did. The US Government acknowledges that there are 800+ separate Skill-sets and exactly 1,539 separate Labor Markets. The Cost-of-Living in each Labor Market varies greatly as this map attests:

    [​IMG]

    I am many things, but Libertarian isn't one of them.

    The last time minimum wage was raised, the Export Sector of your economy was devastated by job losses, as Capital fled to China and other emerging- and developing-States where labor costs were less.

    Yes, that's how Life works: there are Winners & Losers and it's best to let the Market decide where the chips fall.

    Yes, but it would be the Market doing it, not government.
     
  5. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    12,744
    Likes Received:
    3,136
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My view is that some of the underclass find a way to take government subsidies instead of working. I knew a woman with child
    who wouldn't work because her housing, at $500 per month, was paid for by our government as long as she had nobody living with her.
    Also, she got free health insurance and would have to pay if working, and let's not forget about the food stamps used for cigarettes and beer. Of course the boyfriend moved in, but who was checking? They know how to get the free stuff, and know all government rules that pertain to them so that they can take advantage. This is only one person--how many others are there?
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  6. Grumblenuts

    Grumblenuts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    768
    Likes Received:
    332
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Funny how you replied to that comment as if it had been directed at you. Strangely, I hear some of the upper class find ways to claim enormous tax breaks and live like royalty. Doesn't Trump playing so much golf ever bother you? I certainly didn't approve of Obama doing it so much. How about having Saudi royals stay at your hotels while supposedly here on official business? Nothing? It's always down or sideways with you. Never point up, amiright?
     
  7. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    12,744
    Likes Received:
    3,136
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, your comment wasn't directed at me. I am a moderate Republican, and Trump is not my kind of leader. I don't believe that he is any kind of leader. Of course I think that Trump takes time off when he should be paying attention to the mess he is creating. I did not
    object to Obama taking time off, because I think that he deserved it. Maybe you didn't like his politics, but he worked hard at his job.
    And when he did take time off, the job followed him. Somehow I don't feel this way about Trump. Trump is going to increase the
    enormous tax breaks for the wealthy, and give nothing to the working middle class. But this is predictable.
    I do not know what you mean--"never point up".
     
  8. Grumblenuts

    Grumblenuts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    768
    Likes Received:
    332
    Trophy Points:
    63
    "Never point up" is what I think whenever I hear people complaining about others who are obviously poor and struggling as though they were somehow getting away with murder or destroying the country. I've so seldom heard people go on about the rich with similar vehemence and disgust. It's occurred to me that we've likely been programmed that way nearly from birth. To complain only sarcastically about the rich but to seriously piss all over the poor. To unduly respect, laud, or tolerate people simply for being owners or having positions of authority, no matter how attained and far too often no matter what they do. To me, that's our biggest societal illness.

    Why Do We Let a Few People Shift Great Portions of the World's Wealth to Themselves?
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  9. Grumblenuts

    Grumblenuts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    768
    Likes Received:
    332
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Why do we let a few people shift great portions of the world's wealth to themselves? Do they somehow not have enough? Are they not destroying our countries by increasingly corrupting our government representatives? Literally getting away with murder in some cases? Who genuinely poses the biggest risk to our way of life these days, workers seeking a livable wage minimum or the super rich who need for nothing, yet continue grabbing practically everything at our expense?
     
  10. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,911
    Likes Received:
    39,197
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Exactly. I had a girl working for me at about $15/hr back in the 1990's. Her "husband" , they didn't legally marry, work at a chemical plant making probably mid $20 an hour. They played the system and collected welfare. He used a fake address. Another girl got pregnant and when anounced she and the boyfriend were going to marry told no no no, come to the church this weekend and we will councel you on how to max your benefits like don't get married.
     
  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,911
    Likes Received:
    39,197
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well stop purchasing their products and services they offer you then they won't grab your money.
     
  12. Grumblenuts

    Grumblenuts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    768
    Likes Received:
    332
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Brilliant. Thanks for displaying such peculiar concern for my money. What a swell guy! Only 7.5 billion (-1) to go...
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  13. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    11,186
    Likes Received:
    3,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Then a country starts to fear a slow down in growth or recession because nobodies spending so nobodies selling so nobodies making so nobodies earning then people start to lose their jobs getting laid off left right and centre.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  14. Grumblenuts

    Grumblenuts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    768
    Likes Received:
    332
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Careful. He's apt to simply ignore your point and bully you personally for having the temerity to display concern for others.

     
  15. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have an idea, you risk your assets, work a hundred hours a week for years on end starting a successful business, and give any profits above your prescribed level of "too high" to the government.
     
  16. Grumblenuts

    Grumblenuts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    768
    Likes Received:
    332
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Rinse and repeat.
     
  17. Brett Nortje

    Brett Nortje Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,494
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I don't think i understand, could you try to explain it again?
     
  18. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    build your company with your own labor and time, risking your assets, and give all the profits above your prescribed level of "too much" back to the government.
    Lead by example.
     
  19. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    whine and complain
     
  20. Brett Nortje

    Brett Nortje Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,494
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I think most people will must skim as much as they can, or, that we would find a hard way to enforce this.

    Do you have a plan to enforce it, without being too restrictive?
     
  21. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, it was your idea not mine.
    But you are allowed to give all you want out of the profits of your business. Nobody is stopping you
     
  22. Grumblenuts

    Grumblenuts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    768
    Likes Received:
    332
    Trophy Points:
    63
    No wonder you're banned.

    Been there, done that. Why presume otherwise? Haven't you noticed? It's all about you!
     
  23. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My life is about me, yes.
    Take care of yourself and stop reaching into everyone else's pockets
     
  24. Grumblenuts

    Grumblenuts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    768
    Likes Received:
    332
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Except when you're incessantly straw man attacking others personally instead of addressing their points. Duh.

    Thanks. You too. :heart:
     
  25. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    oh no, the straw man rebuttal.
    Run away.
     

Share This Page