The Loss of the American Dream: Why Other Countries Are More American Than America

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Dave1mo, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. Dave1mo

    Dave1mo New Member

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    Social mobility is at its lowest in America, meaning the ideal of "pulling oneself at by one's bootstraps" is as far from reality as it's ever been in this country. My support: "Family origins matter more in the United States in determining where one ends up in life compared to other wealthy democratic countries.

    This is a recent development. Studies of social mobility as far back as the 1950s and 1960s showed that rates of movement in the United States were generally comparable to other developed countries. This finding itself challenged the longstanding image of America as exceptionally open, but it is a far cry from today, when the United States rates at or near the bottom in comparative studies of social mobility.

    To take just two examples, a study by Jo Blanden and colleagues at the London School of Economics found that a father's income was a better predictor of a son's income in the United States than in seven other countries, including Germany, Canada, and the United Kingdom. And a review article by Miles Corak at the University of Ottawa, based on 50 studies of nine countries, found the United States tied with the United Kingdom as having the least social mobility, trailing not only Norway and Denmark but France, Germany, and Canada."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jerom...quality-and-the-american-dream_b_1933238.html


    The inequality of wealth distribution is directly correlated with this lack of socioeconomic mobility. In 1976, the top 1% of Americans held 9% of the nation's wealth; today, the top 1% holds 24% of America's wealth. It's accepted fact that wealth begets even more wealth, especially in a society that claims capital gains from investment should be taxed at a drastically lower rate than normal income; as a result, this concentration of wealth and inequitable treatment under the law has directly led to other countries over-taking America in the most American of ideals: a meritocracy where socioeconomic status was, compared to anywhere else in the world, predicted by hard-work, initiative, and ability.
     
  2. pimptight

    pimptight Banned

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    We can thank the death of the mom and pop store for this.

    Break up Wal-mart, and bring back the clothing store, hardware store, sporting store, and every other kind of locally owned, upper middle class small business that used to be what most Americans aspired to.
     
  3. custer

    custer New Member

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    What do you recommend be done about the wealth gap?

    - - - Updated - - -

    What do you recommend be done about the wealth gap?
     
  4. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    About the late sixties a tipping point was reached.

    With the growth of entitlements, runaway regulations, rapacious litigation, and all-pervasive taxation, it became impossible to pull yourself up unless (like Bill Gates, et al) you found a niche where these government restrictions did not apply, no new domestic competitors could enter existing market, hence economoc mobility was squelched.

    Government remains the main enemy of mobility.
     
  5. Dave1mo

    Dave1mo New Member

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    Tax all income as income, including capital gains. Use that revenue and savings from drawing down expensive foreign wars to improve crumbling infrastructure in the United States, which will primarily benefit lower/middle class citizens in terms of employment opportunities. It will also make business more efficient, which would provide a larger "pie" of GDP, which will benefit everyone.

    Along with infrastructure, make sure that we're making available vocational, 2-year, and 4-year degrees to qualified students to ensure that, by the time people finish the primary "education" part of their lives, they have skills that are directly applicable to the market and, as a result, provide a larger net impact on the economy in general.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Taxation has been at a historically low level for a decade; why hasn't low taxes reversed the trend?

    I expect your typical non-answer in response.
     
  6. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    "What do you recommend be done about the wealth gap?"

    Taxcutter says:
    Reduce overall government to about 10% of GDP (8% to defense). Repeal about 80% of all laws pased since 1960. Rescind about 80% of all regulations promulgated since 1960. Install the system of litigation fees the rest of the world uses - "loser pays.

    Then get out of the way and watch the unseen hand work its magic.

    Every law or regulation moves the US closer to being like the failed USSR and NorK.
     
  7. Dave1mo

    Dave1mo New Member

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    I'd like you to list every one of the regulations you'll repeal.
     
  8. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    You want me to list hundreds of thousands of pages of regulations?

    Is this a cheap ploy to shut me up?

    Try again.
     
  9. Dave1mo

    Dave1mo New Member

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    You seem to think you're qualified to speak on the merit of all the regulations since you can discern which ones are valid and which aren't.

    Back it up.
     
  10. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    Prior to 1960 there was plenty of economic mobility and very few regs. Today there are mountains of regs and less mobility.

    Therefore ALL regs promulgate since JFK was inaugurated are in question.
     
  11. Dave1mo

    Dave1mo New Member

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    Wait wait wait, I thought it was taxation that was stifling economic mobility.

    Why can't you make up your mind? Or maybe it's because you've realized that it's not taxation that is stifling economic mobility, but instead powerful lobbying by the wealthy in an effort to influence the tax code is the culprit; you just won't admit it.
     
  12. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    You aren't listening. Taxation, litigation, regulation and entitlement all play a pernicious role.

    Try to not be so simple.
     
  13. Dave1mo

    Dave1mo New Member

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    So why have historically low tax rates inhibited social mobility and exacerbated the wealth gap?
     
  14. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    Are the tax rates low enough to offset regulation, litigation, and entitlements (all at historic highs)?
     
  15. Dave1mo

    Dave1mo New Member

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    Go ahead and support all three of those claims.
     
  16. Marshal

    Marshal New Member Past Donor

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    On an ideal-for-ideal basis, the America ideals are found more prevalent elsewhere. That is a fact.

    The US is the illusion of freedom, the illusion of rights.
     
  17. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Dave like it or not rules regulations and taxes along with litigation all have a disparate effect on those trying to lift themsleves up. To believe otherwise is to be mathematically obtuse...
     

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