The next disaster - The economy

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by ronv, Mar 30, 2020.

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  1. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Take your partisan drivel elsewhere and discuss the original topic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  2. Thirty6BelowZero

    Thirty6BelowZero Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Andrew Yang's idea was to give money to every citizen (and probably illegal) 18 or older. That would never work. This just gives money to people who filed taxes. Huge difference and nothing at all like what Yang wanted to do. This is more in tune with everybody at work throwing a $10 from their paycheck in a jar each week and then splitting that money up among each other at the end of the month. With Yang's plan, all of those workers would throw a $10 from their paycheck in a jar each week and at the end of the month, splitting the money between them and the homeless living up and down the streets.
     
  3. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    And a guaranteed minimum income so the out-of-work-due-to-automation can buy these products.

    Is that socialism?
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
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  4. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Sure sounds like it :).

    Maybe, workers will be able to manage the machines and robots from home through remote access?

    So far, it seems that businesses were very reluctant to have people work from home. Why? Because they feel like productivity goes down (too many distractions), and maybe it does. However, slightly reduced productivity may be a small price to pay as insurance toward ability to stay open when another pandemic or other natural disasters strike.
     
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  5. Thirty6BelowZero

    Thirty6BelowZero Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If there's anything I've learned about BatBoy, it's that he hasn't changed a bit since the early 90's when he was working with the Clinton's.
     
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  6. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Andrew Yang is looking very prescient right about now
     
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  7. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps AJ is Bat Boy's secret identity?
     
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  8. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Yes, indeed. But it was twenty years ago when my boss asked what would happen when machines made everything? There would be no workers, so how do products get distributed?

    Classical communism is out the window as there would be no working class. Classical capitalism is out the window for the same reason.

    I don't know that GMI is feasible, but at least Yang is trying to answer the right questions. I would have voted for him.
     
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  9. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    It looks like the small business part of the stimulus may miss the mark.
    If I understand it correctly a small business would need to pay it's employees based on borrowed money that may be forgiven in the future.
    That's all good, but lets say your a restaurant paying $7 an hour plus tips maybe that's $400 a month. Your employee can get $25 an hour on unemployment now.
     
  10. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    That’s kind of irrelevant. If an employee would do better on UI then he should do that. All the Relief Act does is shift wage costs to businesses from the UI system at what “could” end up being a loan
     
  11. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh, THAT Bat Boy.
    Actually, I think they're doing a series of four bills. I'll have to look that up.
     
  12. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    Four. That sounds even better.:flagus:
     
  13. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Seriously, read the book that I recommended. It explains in detail the benefits for everyone if we had an economic system that provided a basic, subsistence-level income to all.

    And BTW, Yang's plan did not include the undocumented.
     
  14. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    The problem I think is for the employee to get unemployment she has to be laid of - can't just quit.
    If laid off the business loses the loan forgiveness.
    I'm not sure how you fix it.
     
  15. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

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    The US economy is strong and will rebound fast
     
  16. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is not possible to give everyone a basic income. I am familiar with UBI, but no one can address the obvious issues that make it unsustainable. One issue is the cost of my own money filtering its way through the sticky fingers of the government. By the time a dollar gets back to me, there is very little left.
     
  17. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well I can think of one reason. Many companies, large and small, are just not going to be able to survive such an extended period of drastically cut revenues, no matter what loans they get from the government. I think we are going to see a Great Depression era level of bankruptcies, and the longer we're shut down, the worse things will be.
     
  18. Louisiana75

    Louisiana75 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agreed and get ready for massive amounts of foreclosures coming soon.
     
  19. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    It won't cover those that have quit.

    But businesses can rehire laid off workers or not. Whichever makes sense.If my business gets the loan we have applied for we may rehire our workers (at least put them back on the books) or not kinda depending on their wishes. If we rehire we will get the "forgiveness" for whatever is spent that way.

    It looks like they will get more money if they stay on UI...but if we rehire them they will be covered for 8 weeks longer (that's all the loans will cover)

    Kinda complicated but it also kinda makes sense
     
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  20. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Just so I can understand.
    You could lay them off but still get your loan for say rent forgiven?
     
  21. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Yes. That's what is being said now on the CARES website.

    Whatever portion of the loan used for utilities, rent, wages, or even operating costs (to include existing debt) will be forgiven.

    If I put my people back on the payroll that will be forgiven and if I lay them off in 8 weeks (that is all that is covered) they can then collect 39 weeks UI
     
  22. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Anything not covered stays as a less than 4% ten year loan
     
  23. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    The problem with the Cares loan is that it can ONLY be 2 1/2 times monthly payroll....so it's not real large. 10 year terms is OK but not great

    I have also applied for the SBA Disaster Relief loan.

    That is larger and longer term. With THAT I could do all of the above and get rid of a pile of existing debt and be left with a 30 year 3.75% loan.

    The portion of THAT that covers rent and utilities and wages (for 8 weeks) etc. may still be forgiven.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  24. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Ahh, that's goodness. This goes for 8 weeks?
     
  25. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Who is going to pay this 2 trillion cost?

    (Said by the ghost of Bernie Sander's Campaign, in re objections to his Healthcare and Free College bills)
     
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