The Texas shooting shows the futility of arming teachers

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Arkanis, May 25, 2022.

  1. Hey Nonny Mouse

    Hey Nonny Mouse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,106
    Likes Received:
    315
    Trophy Points:
    83
    The sane thing to do would be to study how things are done in countries that have less killings than we do, which is all first world nations.
     
    Quantum Nerd and Bowerbird like this.
  2. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    93,261
    Likes Received:
    74,529
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    NRA would NEVER allow that. I am sure Wayne Lapierre spits every time he says the name Australia

    We had nearly one miss shooting per year until 1996 and then we had what until then was the worst mass shooting on record. They banned high powered “assault rifles” did a “gun buy back” and enacted federal legislation. Since then we have had three mass shootings - two family suicide murders and one idiot on a rampage
     
    Hey Nonny Mouse and Quantum Nerd like this.
  3. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    7,582
    Likes Received:
    8,798
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You are wasting your time. There is literally no number of dead schoolchildren that will change this. The people who want change don't want it enough & too many of those who oppose change are prepared to literally go to war with their own society to stop it.

    This is a disease without a cure that wil lkill the host rather than allow itself to be cured. Just hug your kids & be thankful you live in a country where the idea of teaching small children 'active shooter drills' is treated as insane....because in any healthy society it is.
     
  4. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2014
    Messages:
    18,194
    Likes Received:
    23,749
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yep, Buffalo too, an armed, trained security guard was on the premise, who engaged the shooter. Now, he is dead.

    It seems to me that most of these shootings end by the shooter running out of victims. Then, eventually,they either kill themselves, or they are killed by a large police force that has secured the scene.

    The irony is that we even have to discuss those issues. The problem is clearly caused by too easy access to guns and too many guns floating around in the population. The idea that more guns and even easier access would solve the problem is mindblowingly stupid.

    But, you can't have am honest debate with the gun lovers. I said two weeks ago after Buffalo, and 10 years ago after Newtown, that we would have the SAME fing debate over and over and over again. That was correct, and things have gotten only worse since then. Next week, we may again have the same debate, and the week after.... In the meantime, innocent people and children keep dying, many more are traumatized for the rest of their lives, and for what? Because the gun lovers value their love of guns over the life of those people mowed down -- until it is one of their own loved ones who is affected, but then a change of heart would be too late.

    Rant over.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
  5. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2018
    Messages:
    32,487
    Likes Received:
    15,982
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Has there ever been a school security guard/resource officer who’s ever stopped a gunman before he’s killed/wounded multiple people?
     
  6. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    93,261
    Likes Received:
    74,529
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    And yet they bleat about “saving the babies”!
     
    Quantum Nerd likes this.
  7. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    16,056
    Likes Received:
    7,579
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not opposed to arming teachers, but I would expect it to be coupled with firearms training and certification with yearly training updates and recertifications.
     
  8. ThatOneSecond

    ThatOneSecond Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2021
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Perhaps the question should be: Why "armed and trained professionals can't stop a gunman"?

    Another question should probably be: Why was the gunman allowed to remain in the building for almost an hour before OTHER armed and trained professionals moved in to stop the gunman?

    Perhaps all this wouldn't have come to pass if there had been armed and trained teachers in the building.
     
  9. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    53,482
    Likes Received:
    49,779
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well you know cops tend to shoot back...
    Evidently his body armor was not that good because he was shot dead
     
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    93,261
    Likes Received:
    74,529
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    The gunman was wearing armour. Think the teachers should wear armour too?
     
    Hey Nonny Mouse likes this.
  11. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    11,445
    Likes Received:
    3,263
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're nothing but a one trick pony who foolishly believes some words on a piece of paper in Washington, DC, or a State's Capital is going to put the firearm genie back in the bottle, but that's not how real life works.

    As I said to you in another thread (just how many do you plan to start that say the exact same thing??), the idea of banning guns based on their appearance, or even all long guns (because the black rifle you fear so much has nothing on a .30-06 or 7.62 in terms of stopping power) is simply not going to work.

    First there are over 400,000,000+ privately held firearms in the USA, and if your goal is to reduce deaths due to firearm violence, trying to confiscate them, a prospect made even more difficult from the fact that with the exception of a few States, government has no way to know where the majority of those guns even are, and even the States that, on paper, require "registration" does not in any way imply full compliance has been accomplished, is going to cause a literal bloodbath. There are many people who would literally rather die on the hill of the Second Amendment, than to lay down like sheep and just say "OK, Mr. Government Man, here's my guns....", and they may very well die on that hill, but they'll probably take out more than a few of the gun confiscators sent to their houses to collect them.

    Next up, guns are fairly simple mechanical devices, and someone with the right skills around a CNC machine, or a 3D printer, can take a few blocks of aluminum, a little bit of steel, some assorted springs available anywhere (or do you plan to ban springs, too?), and some plastic for things like the grip, buttstock (if it's a long gun), etc., and POOF... magic, untraceable gun that the government doesn't even know exists. Unless you're going also ban CNC machines, 3d Printers, and violate the 1A to make sharing plans illegal (which won't work... you can still buy cocaine off the web, and a similar paper says that's banned, too, it's something that cannot be prevented.

    Finally, the real solution, which still will never be perfect, is more holistic. Closed and locked fences that are difficult to climb over, not unlike almost every airport, even small ones, in the United States. Sensors in the fences and on the grounds that will give a warning to someone inside the school that perhaps someone uninvited is where they're not supposed to be, magnetic locks controlled from a centralized security cubby, and yes, multiple trained armed police, volunteer guards who are ex-military or ex-police themselves, and well trained teachers, as the last line of defense.

    But if somehow someone penetrates the multiple security rings surrounding the schools, having armed guards, volunteers, and teachers is no guarantee of success, because just because you have a gun at a gunfight doesn't guarantee you're going to win... because so does the bad guy!

    I'm sure I've also missed a couple of dozen good ideas that aren't prohibitively expensive that, in conjunction with the few ideas I have offered, unlike your broken record of ban guns, ban guns, ban guns answer, would make schools a whole lot less likely to be targeted (at least successfully) by a bad guy while your one-trick pony idea won't accomplish sh*t.
     
  12. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    93,261
    Likes Received:
    74,529
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Well the armour never covers the entire body

    But tell me - how many of these should America tolerate? Seems nothing you have tried so far has worked - so how many more does there have to be?
     
    Hey Nonny Mouse and Quantum Nerd like this.
  13. ThatOneSecond

    ThatOneSecond Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2021
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    As you say, "Well the armour never covers the entire body".

    But sure...why not? Or, at the least, perhaps the teachers should have armor at hand.
     
  14. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    11,445
    Likes Received:
    3,263
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Having a gun in a gunfight is no guarantee of victory. Life isn't like the movies or TV, where pretty much every single cop discharges their sidearms in the line of duty every episode and always wins. Most cops go their entire careers without discharging their sidearms even once in the real world, and those who do find themselves in a gunfight, sometimes they lose. That's life.
     
    FatBack likes this.
  15. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    11,445
    Likes Received:
    3,263
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What is preventing that from happening now? I mean, sure, it may be illegal for an uncertified teacher to come to work armed with carnage on his or her mind (though mass shooters are almost exclusively male) and "shoot(ing) some kiddies" right now, but that law isn't going to stop someone hell bent on doing so! Dumb thing to worry about.

    [/QUOTE] or some kid pulls the gun from teacher's holster. Etc.[/QUOTE]

    If a teacher were properly armed, in such a manner that the kids don't even know it, and they're using a Level-3 Retention holster, the chances of that are as close to nil as they can get. Once again, a dumb thing to worry about given the probabilities.
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    93,261
    Likes Received:
    74,529
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Can I ask - were you for or against masks?
     
    Hey Nonny Mouse and Quantum Nerd like this.
  17. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    93,261
    Likes Received:
    74,529
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    And most Aussies will live without seeing or even hearing about a mass shooting happening here

    But what price “freedom”?
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61192975

    What price “freedom”?
     
    Hey Nonny Mouse and Quantum Nerd like this.
  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    93,261
    Likes Received:
    74,529
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    What price “freedom”
    upload_2022-5-26_21-48-19.jpeg
     
    Hey Nonny Mouse and Quantum Nerd like this.
  19. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    11,445
    Likes Received:
    3,263
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Pretty much any price. Freedom has never been free, nor have we pretended otherwise. I don't care how you do it, you keep doing it your way and stop meddling in our affairs which are none of your damn business. I'd bet you know more about what's going on here than you do even in your own country, and for what purpose?
     
  20. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    27,527
    Likes Received:
    11,272
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Where was that?
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  21. ThatOneSecond

    ThatOneSecond Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2021
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Irrelevant, but I'll answer: I wore masks whenever required.
     
  22. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2020
    Messages:
    10,608
    Likes Received:
    10,944
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    or some kid pulls the gun from teacher's holster. Etc.
    I can think of 1000 scenarios. Put more guns in peeps hands and it's more likely people will get shot. Basic Maths. Schools are a very stressful environment, especially in the US.

    The fact that you're even considering this just show out of touch the US gun lobby is with the rest of the world, and frankly reality.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
  23. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    21,120
    Likes Received:
    20,249
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ark, where did you go to school? I never had armed guards at any school I attended. We had campus security in college but I don't believe they were armed. I can't recall at the moment. I lived in Chicago or its suburbs my whole life outside 7 years in another state.

    Where are all these schools with teachers talking about sex with kids, forcing kids to be non-heterosexual and armed guards and metal detectors are the norm?
     
    Hey Nonny Mouse and Bowerbird like this.
  24. Arkanis

    Arkanis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    13,669
    Likes Received:
    17,490
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    A society that turns its elementary schools into bunkers is a sick society.

    Other Western nations have decided to tackle the real problem and have had spectacular results.

    Here, 60 innocent people die every month in mass shootings and conservative politicians are in thrall to the gun lobby.
     
  25. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    93,261
    Likes Received:
    74,529
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I am surprised

    But think on this - body armour is HOT and restrictive and not the best answer!

    The answer is simple - legislate for gun responsibility
     

Share This Page