The truth about slavery

Discussion in 'Human Rights' started by Mike12, Oct 29, 2016.

  1. Just_a_Citizen

    Just_a_Citizen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    After much strife, having made the moral decision he did, he stood steadfast upon his principals, although not wanting war, but to ensure freedom in our nation for all eventually, while expansionism was wanted wished the immoral action of forced servitude to end. He accomplished his vision. Righteously in my opinion.
     
  2. Just_a_Citizen

    Just_a_Citizen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Just because a few presidents didn't abuse their property, doesn't mean it didn't happen, & happen on a large scale. That's like saying that the experience of Cappos in concentration camps of Nazi Germany are part & parcel to the Jewish experience in the Camps.
     
  3. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    There was a study done in 2012 using census records that puts the military deaths at 750,000. That's not counting civilian deaths nor the deaths of slaves in Union contraband camps, where the average mortality rate was 25%.
     
  4. juanvaldez

    juanvaldez Banned

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    Most folks didn't beat their slaves for the same reason they didn't beat their horses and mules.
     
  5. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    how true! conservatives are not leaders their natural inclination is to respect others not lead them to some idiotic liberal vision as Hitler Stalin Mao and Tojo.
     
  6. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Have you seen the chair he was shot sitting in?

    Have you seen the pitiful small bed the man died on?

    (I have seen both and took photos of both)

    That was his immediate reward. Had he lived, I think his president ranking in history would have been seriously lower.
     
  7. juanvaldez

    juanvaldez Banned

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    Lincoln was probably bisexual. He had a crush on a young Army officer.
     
  8. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    most importantly, he was a liberal with a vision of what govt could do with enough violence ( like Hitler Stalin Mao Tojo) who wanted to instantly change the world.
     
  9. Just_a_Citizen

    Just_a_Citizen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, While I'd love to see both, the latter is due to expediency, as history has taught. Abe was like many in our political history, a great man, with flaws, assuredly, but untapped vastly greater potential.
    I'm not sure his ranking would have been lower, had HE been able to preside over reconstruction. Perhaps he too would be as venerated as Washington. We'll never know.

    Sadly, this is something today, that many of our representatives, municipal level up, leave us grasping for.
     
  10. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    Original sources of the time between Lincoln's inauguration and his calling up of 75,000 troops shows that Lincoln engineered the confrontation at Sumter, rebuffed a Southern peace delegation and refused to inform Congress of his actions. He also suspended habeas corpus in 3 Northern areas during that time and did not address Congress until July 4, 1861, by which time Union troops had already made forays into Virginia.
     
  11. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have no doubt that some slaves were beaten. I have no doubt there are parents that do it too. i have no doubt at all slaves could have had it much better.

    A slave in this report alleges her master fed them fresh meat and plenty of fresh produce.

    Read her own words.
    https://www.amazon.com/Unchained-Me...id=1478035949&sr=1-2&keywords=slave+treatment
     
  12. Just_a_Citizen

    Just_a_Citizen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    T
    To quote many on this forum, did the ends justify the means?
     
  13. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    Lincoln was a racist and did not care about blacks.Lincoln told racist jokes, enjoyed black minstrel shows and had no time for the arguments of hardened abolitionists that the races were equal under God.


    During a famous 1858 Senate debate, for instance, Lincoln spoke of a ‘physical difference’ between blacks and whites that ‘will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality’.


    He went on: ‘There must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favour of having the superior position assigned to the white race.’

    As for giving them the vote, Lincoln only saw it as desirable for the more ‘intelligent’ blacks.

    Spielberg’s film depicts Lincoln as ready to use every power at his disposal to free slaves, but the reality was that he envisaged a fate for them that sounded little better than their life on the cotton plantations of the South.

    Marriage: Lincoln and his wife Mary Todd Lincoln, portrayed by actress Sally Field
    Marriage: Lincoln and his wife Mary Todd Lincoln, portrayed by actress Sally Field
    He supported so-called ‘black colonisation’, backing unsuccessful schemes to send willing freed slaves to new lives — still toiling in the fields under blazing suns, of course — in countries such as Haiti, Panama and British Honduras.

    Supporters say he only did it to persuade Congress to agree to freeing the slaves, but new evidence from, of all places, the National Archives at Kew in South-West London, suggests not.

    Even after Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation of 1863 — which announced that all those enslaved in Confederate territories would be freed for ever — he approved plans in tandem with the British to set up freed slave settlements in what are now Belize and Guyana.

    What really seems to have annoyed African-American historians in particular about Spielberg’s film is its portrayal of Lincoln as the great white emancipator freeing the helpless blacks.
     
  14. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are excellent sources that expose Abe Lincoln. There were letters from Governors to Abe ahead of war deploring his call for troops. but he refused to listen to Governors.

    Sumter is also misreported.

    All i like is truth. Truth is the fort sits in the open waters of the harbor. The cannon they had to use then in the South were rather short range. The fact is, balls did hit the fort. But no person was harmed in the fort by said cannon ball.

    If you people should get to Yorktown, check out the old Nelson house on the left side of Main St. that to this day has a cannon ball embedded in the bricks not far from the peak of the roof.
     
  15. Just_a_Citizen

    Just_a_Citizen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Any links to all of this talk? Was it "Locker-room talk" like Teh Donald espouses? You know, to soothe partisan hacks, like we see today?

    Tough to get inside the mind of a 19th. century man. Hell, I have trouble with my own 20th. century noggin more often than not.
     
  16. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you think this is a straw man, huh?


    I truly am laughing out loud!!!
     
  17. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    not tough at all. His speeches survive. Lincoln was a racist who believed whites were superior and blacks should be shipped out!!
     
  18. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are correct that they are not leaders.

    Mostly...they are followers.

    But what does this have to do with the truth about slavery?
     
  19. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    yes followers of our Founders who wanted freedom from govt whereas libnazis are raised to lead us with an all powerful govt to the promised land as HItler Stalin Mao and Tojo did. Do you understand now why our liberals spied for Stalin and gave him the bomb?
     
  20. Just_a_Citizen

    Just_a_Citizen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Any sources for your stand?

    Lincoln as demonstrated by the quotes in the link I provided, wished, that slavery not be part of expansionism. Morally, as his own words show.

    Racist? Maybe, but he understood that outright "Owning" another human being, "Untermensch" or not, was wrong.

    He decided, that to hell with state's rights, for the good of the union, our country, he'd cut off the head, in spite of the body.

    Look, I'm all for state's rights, but as our constitution states, "We hold these TRUTHS to be SELF EVIDENT, That ALL MEN are CREATED EQUAL..." and other such stuff....

    Just so happens, Lincoln, felt the same way, regardless of what stature he felt non-whites may be equal to.
     
  21. Scamp

    Scamp Banned

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    Suspending the writ of habeas corpus is a very serious violation of the US Constitution. Lincon's henchmen arrested thousands of Northern citizens and they were thrown in military prisons without trial. Many for the entire duration of the war. These citizens were arrested for suspicion of Southern sympathies. Can you imagine that?
     
  22. Just_a_Citizen

    Just_a_Citizen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You mean like interment camps for Japanese AMERICAN CITIZENS during WWII?
     
  23. Ted

    Ted Banned

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    I agree with Thomas Sowell Ph.D that slavery though unfortunate was really a successful refugee movement that was better for blacks than staying in Africa and better than most refugee movements given that slaves were very valuable thus their survival was mostly assured. He even sites ship logs showing the passage here was safer than it was for Irishmen who came here without anyone caring if their passage was survivable.
     
  24. Scamp

    Scamp Banned

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    Lincoln's henchmen also arrested Northern newspaper editors who had spoken out against his war and in some cases they destroyed the printing presses. To Hell with freedom of speach when you are a Tyrant, right ?
     
  25. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Historian David Herbert Donald talks about that in his book aptly titled Lincoln.

    He does not mince words.

    [​IMG]
     

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