The Wealthy Do Pay Income Taxes

Yup.

 

Pensions, 401ks, and such are either based on workers' actual earnings, or ARE workers' actual earnings. So the right gripes that the "dumb" workers don't save for retirement, and then when they do, the right gripes about that, too.

Interesting. I never heard that claimed by the left.This seems to be just another invented fantasy for the purpose of creating something to attack, even if it's false.

That's funny. "We're all human beings!!!! WAAAAaaaaaaaa!"

Yeah don't let facts and honesty get in your way. You can always make some vague accusation of the left regarding the poor and vilify both.

HOBOY! Tinfoil hat time!

 

I truly will never understand why liberals/progressives are so angry about money, or why they seem so covetous of other's wealth. It's so transparent. Trading wealth to achieve power. It's naked regression.

The fun part is watching the progressive JV team try to set hooks.

 

Your inability to understand it or even to get it straight is why we oppose you and your policies. You have put that characteristic on display here several times just today.

 

Compound, obvious straw man with a non sequitur thrown in. Unresponsive.

Yeah, because you never heard of it or have seen it here, means it is made up. There have been dozens of threads on this forum with this exact claim made by the left as justifications for Keynesianism "because rich money doesn't help the economy, certainly not to the degree direct redistributive and other gov spending does" since I've been a member here. The narrative is pervasive throughout the "Krugman and union label contingent" of the MSM Op-ed hack brigades and all over television. Usually, the argument begins with fallacious appeals to "trillions in offshore accounts" or some other deflection from the fact that any money -invested- in anything goes right back into the US economy, whether it's bank deposits loaned out, increased stock prices used as leverage for growth and hiring, municipal bond investments used to build infrastructure, tremendous amounts of money the rich invest in charities, or PE and VC investments used to fund startups and turnarounds.

Fail.

Unresponsive and laughably so. My example couldn't have been more clear, and that you or anyone could argue that people don't generally start out low on the income and wealth totem pole when young, and then increase their income and wealth over their whole career is idiotic.

A vast majority of the perpetually poor in the US end up that way because of hideous repetitive behavior and life choices. Accept that fact of our society or not. There are areas of the world where crushing -real- poverty holds people down their whole lives. The US isn't one of those areas.

Fact time.

 

Let us put the other figure in, using deduction, the numbers you left out, shall we? So between those 50 grand and below and those above 250 grand, you have 35 percent of income earners paying what rate? This is the stat that was left out, for some reason. When it was pertinent. So what is the average tax rate of this 35 percent, those from say 51 grand to 249 grand? Higher than the above 250 tax bracket...higher than 25.7 percent? My guess, and it is just a guess is that this part of the middle class pays more as an average tax rate.

Now, the upper tax bracket, above 250 grand, pay a bit over 51 percent of total taxes paid in. But let us throw in some context here, which might be a bit of piss directed into your cereal. Once upon a time prior to economic globalization, when much of our middle class was due to manufacturing and the support industries tied to manufacturing, it was so hard to cut middle class tax rates for this group paid over 50 percent of federal taxes. Of course they no longer do, but why is it, that they no longer do? Could it have anything to do with the growth in income disparity, which has grown due to economic globalization and open borders, and the finanialization of our economy? In fact the disparity in income is now greater than it was in the Gilded Age which preceded the crash and Great Depression.

Of course this growth of disparity in income which devastated the working blue collar middle class, has seen the income go to the top, away from the middle, and where the income is, is who sees the greater tax burden. So when one says it is now the rich who pay most of the taxes, and your provide no context, well, one can make a false argument that the rich pay too much and they need to pay less, which will drive up debt. For you are borrowing what they do not pay in, when you drop their rates.

America would be exponentially better off, if the middle class once again paid most of the federal tax revenues, for that would mean that they were prosperous and a large middle class existed. And that their work once again has value, as opposed to slave wages in Vietnam and china who do not value work as to make them in the middle class.

So the rich pay 51 percent of federal income taxes because we tax money, and that is where most of the money from income is going. LOL Facts can be very inconvenient things, when they are kinda left out of an argument, right?

And what you left out, says 35 percent of income earners, those above 50 thousand but below 250 thousand, pay 42 percent of federal income taxes, at rates which are probably higher than the 250 and above income earners. For they do not have the loopholes of the upper class, right? On the rates you listed, is this the actual rate or is it the rate that in reality they actually pay. For instance, while corporate rates are what, 35 percent, their average rate in reality is closer to 17. Write offs pull the rates downward. Some, like GE a huge corporation paid 0 at leat in one year. Remember?

Many time people on the right will scream that corporate rates are too high, that the 35 percent they pay is so much higher than they pay in foreign nations. So, since they pay 35 percent, surely we must drop them down, right? Why is it these people do not tell you the reality rate, average is 17, with some of the really big ones, paying single digits, or zero, or worse, getting back money they never paid in, in the first place? I will tell you why they are not honest, providing context which tears their argument apart. They care nothing about honesty and if basically being deceitful and deceptive, using the old saw of "figures do not lie, but liars can figure" they of course will do that. It happens on the left too with other stats, where they basically deceive people in order to encourage others to believe in their argument.

When you have dishonest people presenting arguments, my astute observation and critical thinking, along with a moral compass, a sense of right and wrong. will not just let these deceitful ideologues try to pull the wool over the eyes of the less astute intellects. So we will continue to bring context and important facts which these arguments must leave out, in order to make a rational argument in the first place. And yes, you are welcome for thanking me for adding fact and context. For truth is important to you to, I can tell. You were just confused, or accepted what some deceitful ideologue said, without actually researching it deep enough to reveal facts that matter. Many of us do that, for it is now the American way. Never question if your team says it, and never, ever, be an individual, apart from the tribe when it comes to thinking, reasoning, and their contrived talking points. The head chimp does something, says something, and the rest of the chimp tribe parrots it. For if the big chimp said it, it just has to be true, so no need to question anything he says. The thing is, this leaves the critical, honest intellects in a constant state of being incredulous, that human beings can try to pull this deceit off, and more incredulous that we have people who just believe it, being incapable of questioning. And these people vote and elect people who have a dictatorship like control over us all. It really is a helluva thing, our reality.

 

are you kidding, it seems to be the right that thinks everyone gets too much money, except for the rich, they want to get rid of the min wage and tax the rich less

all the left wants is the rich to pay the same tax per dollar as the middle class

 

Bah, it's pretty transparent! People with money don't cry about taxation, they simply pay what's due "According to current tax laws and exemption"! The ones bawling are the folk that hate paying tax and "WOULD LIKE" everyone to feel their pains If you were so concerned with tax evasion and fairness you would be shaking down the thieven illegals that don't pay their fair share of federal and state tax, but seeing how they are already living like moles the left feel they're vindicated.

It's all progressive hypocrisy

 

Not here! I wish everyone the best of luck and good fortune! What I have a problem with is idiots that can't seem to keep a dollar in the bank and want me to supplement their lack of willingness to work hard and take chances on their own selves and rely on other that did

 

BILL WHITTLE!!!!! LOL!!!! Anything BUT "facts".

 

I don't mind my taxes. In fact I would not object to paying more, unlike you and the rest of the tightwad right. But to hide that fact, you have a need to assert that those who are concerned about tax revenue and fairness are the tightwads. I understand that.

 

So you are saying the US should use the tax code to favor 1 type of work over another?

That doesn't seem fair to me at all.

Fairness of outcome is only fair to the least of us. Fairness of opportunity is something we should be striving for. The biggest obstacle to that is, and always has been, education.

 

Fair to who? Every time I look at what the govt does with my money I'm struck with how little I get for that investment.

And there's nothing stopping you from skipping your exemptions and paying the taxes on your taxable income.

 

You are not adequately informed for the purpose of judging how much you should pay in taxes. The fact that you don't pay much isn't good enough for you.

And your comment about me skipping exemptions is typical of the ridiculous answers the right gives on this. Even if I gave them my whole paycheck and begged for food, it would make a bit of difference. It has to be policy, as you know. The difference between you and me is that I don't mind if I'm included in such a policy change. And if you feel you don't get much for your tax dollars and you see too much waste, the problem isn't the taxes. The problem is the government that is responsible for wasteful programs and corruption, like the $300 hammer. So pay your tax but change the government.

 

... try to spin back to rates because that's the way statists hide the plain, clear facts of who is paying most of the federal income tax. Last I checked, the top 30% of earners pay 97% of taxes and ~40% of income earners pay none. It's true that some of the factors in your long, windy post are necessary context as well, such as what quintiles pay what share of their income in taxes, but so are the facts that the top ~30% of earners pay ~97% of federal income taxes and ~40% pay NONE. When all the necessary context is considered, the constant class warfare lie narratives of the left/Complex lose lots of their steam. Sorry bout that.

The false narrative in US tax policy, as OP rightly notes, is that high income earners pay little or no tax. That narrative is repeated here and through every organ of the gov-edu-union-contractor-grantee-trial lawyer-MSM Complex daily if not more. In context, that narrative is a plain lie.

It's the Complex/left who are the culprits in either omitting necessary context, distorting, or out and out lying about different ways of measuring and looking at social issues, not anyone else. Thankfully, the net has broken the hegemony and continues to do so. The tried and true lie narratives that the Complex has used to dominate public dialog are wilting like vampires in the sun, will continue to do so. Don't like that? Start discussing issues in more complete reasonable context instead of the constant distortions.

 

Word soup that means zip. If I don't understand it, it means that the need is both functionally poorly articulated, or more appropriately, it's vague by design to obfuscate the underlying agenda, which is using wealth redistribution to achieve public support for it's tyranny. Our nations isn't designed to support this type of tyranny.

 

Perhaps you misunderstand what value means. Or how unskilled, untrained, otherwise valueless traits impact the value of service. Do you truly suppose that just showing up, in whatever capacity with whatever skill set requires that all should be paid the same? Does skill not then play a role in determining value?

 

Obviously what he meant is that when the disparity between the rich and the poor reaches a tipping point, the much more numbered poor rise up against those controlling the resources and the wealth and violence ensues. It's not just about you having money, it's about how those with wealth make that wealth, and how they use it to control the state of things that affects everybody, including those lower on the economic ladder. Money is power, so that means it's about how that power is being used just as much or more than it is about you having a nice bank account. Trying to reduce it down to people wanting to steal your stuff just shows you don't want to talk about the real life reasons that motivate people on this issue.

Basically, it goes like this and has been repeated throughout history.

There are always wealthy people, and that's okay. Poor people can be okay with people being rich

EXCEPT

When those rich people are making that wealth by and using it to screw those poor people. It's got nothing to do with work ethic or laziness, it's about who is pulling the strings and who is being made to dance by them.

 

I do.

Good for them! I hope to join them.

There is not one pie for everyone to share... everyone has their own pie. The size of YOUR pie is wholly determined by your own skill as a baker, and your work ethic. Anyone can amass a million dollar retirement nestegg... anyone... if they start when they are young enough and are willing to sacrifice one day per week to that goal.

That is not a problem unless "the rich" are somehow impeding my ability to get richer too. I cannot think of any way that my uber-rich neighbor, or Bill Gates, is causing me to not be able to grow my own wealth.

They number less than 3% of taxpayers, yet they 'contribute' over half the total revenue collected annually by the IRS.

 

I guess you missed the part where they have the bulk of the wealth...

 

Says the guy from the state with the fifth highest recipient of food stamps in the U.S., and the best part, no sales tax Hell, Oregon doesn't need higher tax's they just need to buy their own food

 

What would Jesus say?
The Widow's Offering
41 As Jesus was sitting opposite the treasury, He watched the crowd placing money into it. And many rich people put in large amounts. 42 Then one poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which amounted to a small fraction of a denarius. 43 Jesus called His disciples to Him and said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more than all the others into the treasury 44 For they all contributed out of their surplus, but she out of her poverty has put in all she had to live on.”

 

What would Jesus say?
The Widow's Offering
41 As Jesus was sitting opposite the treasury, He watched the crowd placing money into it. And many rich people put in large amounts. 42 Then one poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which amounted to a small fraction of a denarius. 43 Jesus called His disciples to Him and said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more than all the others into the treasury 44 For they all contributed out of their surplus, but she out of her poverty has put in all she had to live on.”

 

If you don't understand plain English, it's a reflection only on you.

 

That would be true if you lived in a finite bubble world There is no bulk with wealth as wealth is infinite and can be created by anyone if they so desire! Only people with no ambition and lack of idea's live out their lives thinking there is a big pot of wealth and it's all used up by the rich, those folks are societal dolts!