Things which could exist in a world without atheism

But he's not the only one.
I hope someday you'll join us
And the uuuniverse will live as one.

 

Wait a minute! What did I just put in my mouth?

 

Remember folks, God Hates Figs.

 

Why are rape and murder considered evil?

The almighty God does let it happen. Mankind is His creation. He can do what he wants with His property.

 

That's right. If God says it's Good, then it's good, right? So if God tells you to eat your children with Dijon mustard instead of horseradish sauce, it would be wrong not to do as he says.

 

Not only figs ...

 

You got it, bro! See the music video above.

 

RE: Things which could exist in a world without atheism
SUBTOPIC: Free Will
※→ pitbull, Jolly Penguin, et al,

Copied from the Handbook of Free Will and Illusion • © Author Saul Smilansky, Oxford University Press
​

BLUF: You cannot believe this concept is correct and still maintain "Free Will" as a characteristic.

(COMMENT)

Organized religions may teach "Free Will" but then they make rules that contradict the entire concept. My favorite is the Rule by the Catholic Church is that if you do not go to mass on Sunday, it is a "Mortal Sin" (that which is against the grace of the God of Abraham • as opposed to "venial sin"). Missing Mass is a violation of duty that all Catholics are bound to the Church and attend Mass (a mandatory ritual). And IF you die with a Mortal Sin THEN you are damned to hell.

You cannot have "Free Will" from the Supreme Being and then have agents of the Supreme Being make mandatory rituals obligatory. And is the Supreme Being "telling" you to do something, that is a revocation of "Free Will." But in a more complicated sense, IF the Supreme Being is infallible and knows the future, THEN the Supreme Being knows what you will do tomorrow. And IF the Supreme Being knows today that you will eat child tomorrow THEN tomorrow you will have no choice but to eat the child. That is a revocation of the "Free Will."

The "cults" (like Scientology) take this concept to the extreme. And these usually (not all) have a bad ending. While some religious cult are hamless, not all for them are so.

• Children of God (David Berg)
• The People's Temple (Jim Jones)
• Heaven’s Gate (to be carried away by aliens)
• Sun Myung Moon (Unification Church)
• The David Koresh variant of the Church of the Seventh-day Adventists

The question becomes, when does society have the right to break-up a "cult?" How far is man's interpretation of "Free Will" becomes dangerous.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

Every good thing one does is to do Gods will. God doesn't will us to do evil. Men who do evil, do so in league with the spirit of the adversary of God and mankind. So it is illogical to blame God for this.

 

That is true by definition if you define Good as whatever God's will is. But there may then be a big difference between acts that you call good, and what somebody who doesn't equate morality to obedience to God's will calls good.

 

I don't base my sense of right and wrong on obedience to any authority figure, divine or otherwise. I base my moral sense mostly on empathy, fairness, and social contract.

It seems obvious to me that a God believer who equates morality to God's will (which isn't all God believers), then will thereby be unable to imagine God doing or commanding anything "bad".

I am capable of judging literalist bible God as unethical, precisely because my sense of morality is external to literalist bible God.

 

As far as I know, Scientology is a "godless" philosophy (like Buddhism). They don't claim God or gods. In the case of Buddhism, one is allowed to be theist too (Christian, Muslim, etc.) as long as there isn't a conflict.

Btw, for some religious people "free will" is the ability to reject God. It's part of God's mercy towards humanity to allow us to deny our Creator.

Islam says that no one will be punished for atheism who has never heard of the Holy Quran and the Messenger Muhammad. He even goes to paradise if he leads a decent life.

 

It's more illogical for Almighty God to allow this. This implies either that God is not omnipotent or that he wants evil.

 

God by definition can't want evil if good is defined as God's will.

 

So there's an obvious contradiction between God's will and what humans define as good.

 

No, this implies that life is a proving ground, a probation of sorts. And that our deeds and choices make us who we become. And Gods restraint in judgment is a matter of mercy according to the fluidity of life. And that man may change, such that todays sinner might become tomorrows saint or aligned and engaged to a better way. We learn and grow.

 

this did not copy well.

 

I have never understood this line of reasoning. Why would a person need any religious beliefs to have a moral code? And, how is that moral code working out for theists?

 

Thanks for posting this. I was look for the stats and only saw the report by Pew Research which was several years old. I really don't understand how belief in a religion or non-belief rules the roost for criminals. That's not how it works in real life and I'm surprised anyone would suggest such a thing.

 

Okay, but what's about the victims of our wrongdoing? We learn, get better, but others probably suffer a lot from this process. Where is God's mercy for those we need to become good?

 

Yeah, it didn't copy well and you replied before I deleted it....but you can click on the hyperlink to make it make sense.
And here is something else...."The Federal Bureau of Prisons released an April 2013 survey of 218,167 prisoners that reports 0.07% of prisoners call themselves atheists."

 

I think it should be looked into how many convicts convert to the preferred religion of the society in which the jail sits. I think you may find that "come to Jesus" moments are claimed pretty commonly among the newly incarcerated.

 

RE: Things which could exist in a world without atheism
SUBTOPIC: Free Will
※→ Injeun, et al,

.
(COMMENT)

What humanity believes a Supreme Being (SB) is, or capable of, is purely conjecture formed on the basis of incomplete information.

◈ IF you believe The SB to be infallible - THEN either:

✦ The SB intentionally built flaws into the creation of humanity,
....................................or
✦ The SB is purposefully toying with humanity,
....................................or
✦ The SB has no interest in humanity and its development.​

And even this conjecture could be based on insufficient and fundamental knowledge on a Being of infinite power. Does humanity actually know (the idea of knowledge is in itself a paradox) that there is a dimension beyond that which we commonly experience? All the Abrahamic religions are based on supernatural beliefs or the ancient experience of a species not now evident.

If someone in the year 1066 (beginning of Anglo-Saxon rule and end of Norman rule) were to hear this, they might think the angels were singing. It would be supernatural.



Most Respectfully,
R

 

Being away from godliness on the outside is not the same as being an atheist on the outside.

 

RE: Things which could exist in a world without atheism
SUBTOPIC: An Alternative View
※→ Jolly Penguin, edna kawabata, et al,

(COMMENT)

When I was young, I spent several summers in the care of an older relative. She was born in Mallorca, (Spain) in the 1890's. She spoke at least 5 languages [Arabic (North African Dialect), Spanish, Portuguese, Italian (Sicilian Dialect), German, and Greek]. And, as youngsters are prone to do, I got in my far share (maybe more) trouble. She was (as I look back on it now) not abusive, but for punishment, I was to sit under the staircase and she gave me The Catechism of the Catholic Church to read. When you are imprisoned, you would be surprised what you will learn to read. It all depends on the circumstances and exposure. It is not about turning to any specific religion, but what you have come to be indoctrinated with.


Most Respectfully,
R