This did not come about by chance...

So you believe in eternity? The eternal existence of matter and energy, since it can not be naturally created or destroyed according to Lord Kelvin (not Kelven, I understand his writings enough to at least spell his name correctly)?

The Second Law of Thermodynamics tells us that a system will always go from order to disorder unless there is a plan or outside intelligence to organize it.

World-renowned evolutionist Isaac Asimov when discussing the Second Law of Thermodynamics said:
"Another way of stating the second law then is: 'The universe is constantly getting more disorderly!'" Viewed that way we can see the second law all about us. We have to work hard to straighten a room, but left to itself it becomes a mess again very quickly and very easily. Even if we never enter it, it becomes dusty and musty. How difficult to maintain houses, and machinery, and our own bodies in perfect working order: how easy to let them deteriorate. In fact, all we have to do is nothing, and everything deteriorates, collapses, breaks down, wears out, all by itself - and that is what the second law is all about."[SUP]1[/SUP]

As Isaac Asimov says, everything becomes 'a mess ... deteriorates, collapses, breaks down, wears out, all by itself'. Now in complete opposition to one of most firmly established laws in science (the Second Law of Thermodynamics), people who support the theory of Evolution would have us believe that things become more organised and complex when left to themselves!

Some people argue that the earth is an open system and therefore the Second Law of Thermodynamics does not apply. Simply pouring in energy (sunlight) into the earth does not override the Second Law of Thermodynamics. As shown in Isaac Asimov's quote above, the Second Law still applies on earth. Pouring energy into a system makes things more disordered!

The brilliant scientist Lord Kelvin who actually formulated the Second Law of Thermodynamics says for very good scientific reasons; "Overwhelming strong proofs of intelligent and benevolent design lie around us ... the atheistic idea is so non-sensical that I cannot put it into words."[SUP] 9[/SUP]

As Dr John Ross of Harvard University rightly states:"… there are no known violations of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Ordinarily the second law is stated for isolated systems, but the second law applies equally well to open systems. …"[SUP]7[/SUP]

Evolution has no plan or outside intelligence and, according to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, can never take place.

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Taken from the book In Six Days (why 50 scientists choose to believe in creation) edited by John F Ashton PhD, New Holland Publishers, 1999.

1 In the Game of Energy and Thermodynamics You Can't Even Break Even, Isaac Asimov, Smithsonian Institute Journal, June 1970, page 6.
2 Evolution's erratic pace, Natural History, vol. LXXXVI (5), May 1977, page 14.
3 The Origin of Species, Charles Darwin, J.M. Dent & Sons ltd, London, 1971, page 167.
4 Unlocking the Mysteries of Creation (Volume 1) , Dennis R. Petersen, Christian Equippers Ministries, Calfornia, 1987, page 84. 5Hoyle on Evolution, Nature, vol. 294, 12 November 1981, p105. (Words in italics in the quote are added for clarification.)
6 Origin of Species, Charles Darwin, 6th edition, NYU, 1988, page 154.
7 Chemical and Engineering News, John Ross, July 7, 1980, p40; cited in Duane Gish, Creation Scientists Answer their Critics Institute for Creation Research, 1993.​

 

Clearly everyone who doesn't understand how order must arise out of chaos is in my opinion an idiot.

 

Are you claiming that these scientists, (Lord Kelvin, Dr. Ross and thousands of others) are idiots?

 

That would make everyone an idiot, obviously. The only relevant distinction would be between those who fraudulently claim such understanding and those who do not.

 

Not Lord Kelvin. You are not considered a credible scientist if you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how nature works. Try opening a thread on the Physics forums and see how fast you get shut down.

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I am afraid you don't understand much of anything in this world.

 

Censorship over on the Physics Forum?

So you admit Kelvin's (not Kelven's) 2LoT is accurate?

 

I'm tired of talking to walls. I came here for intellectual discussions but I should have known better.

 

We see order being increased every spring - plants grow, bacteria multiply, animals breed, world population increases, etc., etc.

If thermodynamic laws applied in the way you want to apply them, these things we witness would all be just as impossible as evolution.

Maybe a starting point is to come up with an understanding of how these laws allow for life on earth to continue. After all, we know a whole lot more about how life continues than we know about how life got started.

Once you have that down, I think you will notice that extending to include evolution and even abiogenesis is no big deal as far as thermodynamics is concerned.

 

That isn't order. You misunderstand science

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You may as well quit while you are behind.

 

Kelvin also stated that x-rays would turn out to be a hoax, that there was nothing new to discover in physics (only more precise measurement of what we already know), and that radio has no future.

Does that make him an idiot?

I don't believe so.

I'd also point out that while he talks about God a lot, he doesn't specify God in any of his professional work. Like Einstein, he divided science and religion.

If you're impressed by Kelvin and Einstein, maybe THAT is a more important attribute for you to attempt.

 

That's as much order as is required for evolution.

 

You continue to claim something is true when it isn't, but that will not make it true.

One, just one pirece of scientific evidence validating evolution. Just one, I have not been shown anything yet, after weeks of asking.

 

By his own admission, neither did Einstein. Too bad he never had the opportunity to sit at your feet, huh?

 

I asked this question before, but I don't recall if you answered it or not. Do you believe that a single-celled organism can evolve into a fully functional human being, and if so how long would this change take?

 

One may wonder if there exists some evidence represented at a very basic and intuitive level which you can both understand and accept. But I am afraid that regardless of any such evidence and representation thereof there exists a cognitive firewall that will conjure a scenario where your reality is always affirmed.

Here is a fantastic video that proves your concept of order and disorder intrinsically flawed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3oItpVa9fs
Cymatics is a great representation of order spontaneously emerging from disorder when certain frequencies are applied to a system. In the video you see sand arranged on a surface area at random which represents the system in a disorderly state. If we were to cycle at random different frequencies (which are vibrations at specific time intervals) we will eventually hit a frequency that spontaneously rearranges the sand into a complex pattern where the entropy of the system spontaneously decreases.

 

Scientists of the more distant past may get a pass because at the time our knowledge was limited.

But anyone who in last 100 years does not accept that entropy can decrease (order increase) locally, is an idiot.

 

This is so waaaay off topic. What does intelligent input of frequency have to do with random chance formation of complex organic nanomachines?

 

The Second Law can be stated in many different ways, e.g.:

• that the entropy of the universe tends towards a maximum (in simple terms, entropy is a measure of disorder)
• usable energy is running out
• information tends to get scrambled
• order tends towards disorder
• a random jumble won’t organize itself

 

We can simply remove the "intelligence" of the input frequency by randomly cycling through frequencies in which we are guaranteed to eventually hit a frequency in which an ordered structure emerges. In other words we can add energy to a system and get a net decrease of entropy, something you have failed to understand since the beginning of the discussion. This is proof that given enough time with random flows of energy at random frequencies into an open system order will eventually emerge. It doesn't take a leap of imagination to at least consider the possibility that this is the underlying mechanism in which life is possible.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics

Initially, system "Earth" has an entropy of 10, system "Sun" has an entropy of 200. After some time, system "Earth" has an entropy of 8 (more order), system "Sun" has an entropy of 220.

Total entropy increased from 210 to 228, yet there is more order locally, on Earth. All perfectly in harmony with the second law. Numbers are made up of course, but the point stands.

 

Tried that one about 20 pages back I think. NaturalBorn doesn't understand it.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVkjP5d6ulc Non-living matter displays 'lifelike' properties.

 

Do you even think about your responses? Where do the frequencies come from?

You have zero understanding of science, so maybe go over to another forum about pop culture or something.

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All religious speculation. Not scientific.

 

The SLoT says no such thing, and you know it by now. This is the problem with creationists, they just make crap up.

 

That is exactly what it states. Evolutionists have to change it around because it pokes holes in their religious dogma.

 

Don't worry, NaturalBorn will be calling "Old Earth Creationist" Ross an idiot when he discusses the age of the Earth!