Translate propaganda into plain English

Discussion in 'Political Science' started by yangforward, Apr 12, 2024.

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Do you think the news should hide from the public what is really happening?

  1. Yes, of course

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. Yes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Usually

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. No

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  5. I don't know

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I recall back in the war in Vietnam that Air Force Thunderchiefs
    'hammered enemy positions'.

    So 'enemy positions' means 'enemy soldiers' and might include
    machine gun nests and artillery or anti-aircraft guns.

    Someone I know who served in Vietnam was surprised / doesn't
    believe, how many people were killed in that war, and I was also
    surprised when I found out.

    Despite being in living history, the truth has been obscured by
    using terms that hide the true meaning.

    'Destroyed targets' was another way of expressing 'killed soldiers'.
     
  2. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To kick off the war, the US sent 700 million dollars of 'aid'
    or 'help' to Ukraine in 2021.

    The explanations here on PF have been that if only the US
    had sent more 'help' over then Russia would not have dared
    'attack'.

    The 'attack' consisted of moving forces in on the west of
    Donbass to protect Donetsk in particular from artillery
    fire coming from the west.

    And a quick run down toward Kyiv to cause Zelenskyy
    to panic and withdraw forces from the area west of
    Donetsk to allow the Russian forces to move in.

    And that strategy worked.

    And in Istanbul Russian and Ukrainian
    diplomats drew up a peace agreement.


    The propaganda was describing the defense of
    Donbas as 'aggression'.

    If that was 'aggression' then what was Kyiv doing
    firing a few shells a day at Donetsk over the previous
    7+ years?

    Kyiv was firing shells into a city what was at that time
    still part of Ukraine.
     
  3. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One way to verify or cast doubt on Biden's narrative is to compare it with real life.

    [President Biden Holds a Press Conference Feb 24th 2022]
    "Sorry to keep you waiting

    The Russian military has begun a brutal assault on the people of Ukraine without provocation, without justification, without necessity. ..."

    The implied message of Biden being late might have been to suggest he
    was picking up some last minute information about the rapidly unfolding conflict,
    he appears to be suggesting it was happening at that moment.

    There's a slight problem, NATO did not find that narrative sufficiently accurate:

    Ukraine war started in 2014.png
     
  4. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is also a kind of structural propaganda, moving the goal posts,
    which is an informal logical fallacy.

    It is a way for turning another's success into failure by redefining the
    intention.

    An obvious example is how the war in Ukraine didn't start in it's present
    phase until just after Feb 19 2022 when the heavy bombardment of
    Donbass began. The initial goal of Russia was not to allow NATO into
    Georgia or Ukraine.

    But it didn't have a pre-emptive element, so Russia would only intervene
    after NATO had taken the first steps, quite a few as it turned out. And
    that was the brightest of all red lines the Kremlin was talking about.
     
  5. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It might look like a failure because Russia has continued for two years
    to only keep the US/NATO-backed Kyiv regime out of half of Eastern
    Ukraine and out of Crimea.

    But that minimal requirement has been achieved, for two solid years.


    Moved Goal Posts

    A message claims that Putin himself has a personal ambition to conquer
    all of Europe, because he is the same height as Napoleon.

    It was actually a different signatory to the Minsk Agreement, Chancellor
    Angela Merkel who is the same height as Napoleon was. The others,
    Hollande and Putin are all about an inch and a half taller, 5ft 7in as
    is also Zelensky; all in the 5ft 7 club.

    Although a frivolous argument it is widely believed in the US,
    and goes with the label 'Dwarfistan'.

    An original document written by the US Ambassador to Moscow
    shows that he asked around the Kremlin and found everyone
    was of the same opinion that expanding NATO into Ukraine would
    be crossing the brightest of all red lines. It isn't a personal ambition.
     
  6. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fallacy - appeal to popularity

    It is correctly known as: Argumentum ad populum

    I've noticed the main stream (govt supplied) news
    is a veritable jungle of logical fallacies.

    When a president says: "the whole world is with us"
    or "the whole world is praying with us" that's the

    Argumentum ad populum fallacy.

    It usually means even most of this country doesn't agree
    with him, but we are wrong because most of the people
    off in other countries do agree with him, or so he says.
     

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