Trump's Lawyers should have known better

Massive mail in ballot campaigns where you have multiple districts that all send their ballots into one super center that allows for the obfuscation of fraudulent ballots is not.

And what you just said is tantamount to saying, “hell we have security. We don’t need to test that it actually works and verify that nothing fraudulent is getting through. We just need to trust the security is working, not actually test it to make sure it is”

lol give me a ****ing break

 

Creating fraudulent ballots that are identical to the real ones is easy. Attempting to create tens of thousands of envelopes with unique and matching voter information would be impossible.

So that would not be attempted. But introducing fraudulent ballots is IMPOSSIBLE to find without a full signature verification audit. So the Dems knew as long as they can stop a full SV audit of one county then they CANNOT be caught. It’s impossible.

That’s why the Dems sued to stop it.

 

Do you really believe that jurisdictions are NOT comparing the number of ballot envelopes to the number of ballots?

That's not true. BUT! Why only one?

Comparing ballot count to envelope count IS being done ... I guarantee it.

 

No it’s not. While I appreciate your guarantee. I’ve actually looked and tried to find where that’s part of the process in ANY district. And there’s no source ANYWHERE that indicates that’s the case.

If you can find one, produce it.

The count is done with machines. They’re not counting the envelopes unless they are doing a hand recount and even then they’re not counting the envelopes unless they expressly state they are Because that would take twice as long.

 

Would be foolish and isn't done.

"IS not"? Is not done.

Which we do.

I'm sure there are many checks on election security, and like many things secret, they aren't published to keep them effective.

Elections are serious business, nothing to LOL about. But, nothing anyone can say will placate you, your mind is made up; you be you. But OUR elections ARE secure. Every time someone tries to game them they get caught. Are they perfect, probably not. BUT! It IS impossible to introduce enough ballots to change and elections outcome; of that we can all be sure. Lobby your State Representative and Senator; try to get them to do the kind of audit you're asking for. I'll bet they laugh at you ... but ... you could try.

 

Yes there is something that can be done. A signature verification audit of one full county. Why is that problematic to do? Why would you or ANYONE ELSE say no we can’t do that. There’s no privacy concern because you can’t see their votes. So what’s the problem?

 

I wonder why.

I hope there is nowhere that reveals the security measures States are taking to ensure a fraud free election.

You don't know that and, Georgia - btw, did a hand recount of their complete 2020 election.

 

Yes they did but Georgia did NOT count their envelopes. Because to do so would take twice as long as a regular count of the ballots. Show me any source that mentions that they counted the envelopes?

 

I didn't.

WHY are you pounding away on your keyboard, worrying this like a dog on a bone, when you could be writing your State Representative and/or Senator suggesting it's implemented in your State?

 

Probably not.

Show me the State that has a head of election security that is stupid enough to publish his security measures.

 

Because what good will that do when the democrats just sue to stop it anyway.

I’m simply using basic logic to point out the inconsistency in the lefts position. You cannot state unequivocally that there was no fraud because your side refuses to allow the only method which can determine it. That doesn’t mean they didn’t commit fraud. It means they successfully stonewalled an investigation into their fraud.

 

Look I appreciate your faith in our election system, I truly do. And if 2020 was any other election year I would probably agree. However it wasn’t. There were massive reformations in how ballots were counted, received and transmitted. Furthermore many of these changes happened within WEEKS if not DAYS from the election. It’s HIGHLY possible they didn’t even have enough time to institute sufficient security measures.

I believe that in any supposedly secure closed system it is appropriate and even necessary to test the system after you’ve run it to make sure it’s still secure. If you don’t you can’t just assume it is after all of those changes. And I don’t think it’s unreasonable to request

 

And all you have to do is a SAMPLE audit looking for the same thing. If enough turn up in the audit then you can do a full canvass.

But they had already done an audit and nothing untoward was found.

 

The method to determine it had already been done. There had already been an audit of the votes.

 

Btw did you know that the “secret ballot” is also known as the “Australian ballot” because we invented it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_ballot

 

Lol omg I honestly don’t think you understand.

Okay let me try this a different way. Let’s assume I put 10,000 ballots in boxes and successfully infiltrated the system and got my ballots counted.

How does a sample of the envelopes show ANY of my fraudulent ballots? They don’t because I didn’t put in any envelopes. I simply created fraudulent ballots.

So if you recount, you’re just recounting my fraudulent ballots.

If you take a sample of the envelopes and compare them to the registration records, they’ll all match and you still won’t find my fraudulent ballots.

How do you find my fraudulent ballots?

The only way to do so is to check ALL of the envelopes and count them. Because you will be 10,000 envelopes short. Because I didn’t create any envelopes but I did create fraudulent ballots that got counted. So when you count the envelopes, you will find you are 10,000 envelopes short.

But that is the ONLY way you’ll find them.

 

You'll never know until you try.

Really? I didn't know "the left" had a position. I'll bet if you propose a real breakthrough security measure for our elections, it will be jumped on.

I can say "unequivocally" that there has been NO fraud in the 2024 election ... so far. But! I don't conceed that your "envelope audit" (which I've never heard before) advances election security in any way. Much less that it is "the only method that can determine it".

Hint! Twenty twenty is OVER.<-period Nothing going forward is going to change the outcome of 2020.

 

This is starting to sound like something out of Alice in Wonderland. "We count votes every other day. But! It's never any other day".

Twenty twenty is in the rear view mirror, pard.

Just because it was the first election, in a long time, conducted during a pandemic, doesn't mean the people that ran it never ran an election before or that it required some magical new security measures no one had thought of before.

Well, reasonable or not it's a bit late now.

 

10,000 ballots is a lot of paper. What would be the physical size of that many ballots? Even if they were the size of a one dollar bill that would be a stack in order of 43 inches high

 

You think that without a shred of proof.
You have fallen for 'THE BIG LIE' and that's all you're going to believe.

Every State has R and D people on the election committee.
To receive and count ballots.
and then certifies their count and the gov then has to sign off that the count is accurate. And all 50 Govs did just that.

 

Then we'd have to assume, based on previous experience with people attempting to hack our elections, that you are posting this from prison.

Then the ballot to envelope count would be off and recount would be initiated.

You're "fraudulent ballots would be discovered".

But the ballot to envelope count would be off and I assure you, you would be found out, prosecuted and put in jail.

Ask your States head of election security, IF he tells you let me know.

BINGO!!!

Not if your State is on the ball, long before your "audit" they would know the ballot to envelop count was off. Which is why your cockamamie "audit" would never be implemented. NOT because "the left" has some spurious motive, but because your "audit" would be superfluous.

 

No I believe it’s appropriate to determine definitively. I am the one asking for proof. You are the one saying we don’t need any because we won

 

I tell you what. If any of you can tell me how we would detect a fraudulent ballot introduced into the count after the fact, other than a full SV audit, I’ll concede my position. If you can’t then you concede we don’t know if fraudulent ballots were introduced or not.

 

you're a bit late. AND, your asking the wrong people.

No, I'll tell you what. Go ask someone that might be able to help you. It's not me.

I'm WAY past givingAshit if you "concede" or don't.

AND, btw, your "position" has NOTHING to do with the OP ... anyway.

My bad, I'll have to be more careful as to what I respond to. This is at least and hour of my life wasted.

 

I have just as much proof that Republicans stuffed the ballot boxes around the country as you do that Democrats stuffed the ballot box. Why was there no investigation into Florida ballots? Or ballots in Texas? You prove to me that Trump actually won in those states.