Turkey set to invade northern Syria, White House says, raising concerns for Kurdish fighters

In Gaddafi's case, maybe by not pulling a "we came, we saw, he died hah-ha-ha"?

 

Yep, very stable. The Saudi-Mamluk war was a bright star leading humanity to peace and harmony, and the star got brighter and brighter following other Saudi-Ottoman wars, Egyptian-Ottoman wars, Yemeni-Ottoman conflicts. Chances are you will go back to that arrangement soon enough.

 

That doesn't excuse Trump's betrayal, it condemns him even more.

 

By the time NATO and the US got involved all the embassies had closed , 7 oil companies had pulled out and Libyan refugees were flooding into Italy. Gaddafi said that blood would run in the streets. It was a matter of time.. The Libyan tribes hated Ghaddafi since 1969.

 

Nope you did.

 

What id does is define hypocrisy. The nobility of the left is conditional upon political need.

 

Trump does the damage every time he speaks or tweets. Just think about what he just tweeted about withdrawing from Syria, after zero consultation with any advisors, not even the Secretary of State.

Obama didn't damage a damned thing. He inherited an economy on the verge of complete global collapse and managed to keep it to just a deep recession. Recover has been slow, but steady. Trump added more than $1 trillion to the deficit by the end of his second year in office via his tax break for the rich. Manufacturing is at an all-time low. And now, he's made a handshake and our word worthless on a global scale. No one trusts us to keep our word to our allies.

Add Trump to that cluelessness. He ran a campaign and got elected, which makes him a politician. Even his most staunch supporters in the House and Senate are against him on abandoning the Kurds.

All of the grownups in the White House who used to try to advise him have quit or been fired. Trump surrounds himself with sycophants and big money donors, and appoints these toadys to important positions for which they have no training or experience, and their incompence adds to his own. Trump doesn't take advice. He thinks he knows more than any experts. I can sum him with one of his own quotes, said in response to several of our top intelligence professionals when they assured him that yes, Kim Jong Un has been testing ICBMs capable of reaching the U.S., after Putin assured him it wasn't true. "I don't care. I believe Putin."

We have had busy news days since Trump came down the escalator and began pouring out hate towards Mexicans. He can't or won't stop saying and tweeting and doing unethical and sometimes illegal things. He has no sense of right or wrong. Everything is about his enormous and fragile ego.

I want a smart but boring president.

 

Won't happen. They are outnumbered and outgunned, and don't even have their own sovereign state, much less any other real friends in the world. What Trump is doing to them is shameful.

 

Obama didn't damage things... yeah right. I'll give you one example. Obama nuked race relations in this country by supporting the lies coming out of Ferguson MO and BLM.
Just one example of many.

 

Obama always had a vision what the world should look like...his way.

Obama's regime change # 1.
Mubarak thrown under the bus, Muslim Brotherhood put in power in Egypt.
The Muslim Brotherhood quickly removed from power by the Egyptian military and the military tremains in power in Egypt as it was under Mubarak.

Obama's regime change #2.
Obama arms the Libyan rebels who were actually Al Qaeda.
Even before Hillary was high fiving everyone that she murdered Muammar Gaddafi, the Black Flag was flying over Libya.

Obama regime change # 3.
Assad in Syria.
Obama arms his "JV Team" (ISIS) and the Syrian Civil War becomes the first proxy war of Cold War ll.
Assad remains in power and Russia is declared the winner of the first Cold War ll proxy war.

 

Gosh you don't know anything about the ME or the Muslim Brotherhood.. Does this shallow insinuation pass for intelligence these days?

 

IMHO, those were truths, not lies.

Obama's effect on racism was entirely due to the fact that he was not white.

 

G.H.Bush (41) threw the Kurds under the bus.
Clinton threw the Kurds under the bus.
Bush (43) used the Kurds.
Obama wanted nothing to do with the Kurds.
Trump just wants to get the **** out of Syria.

I think the Kurds are in deep **** right now.

 

Uninformed,

Do you have answers?

 

Obama "walked" the Bush "talk." Regime change gained strength under Bush, when we failed to find WMD in Iraq. Cheney began talking about establishing a new democracy in the center of a sea of authoritarianism. The Obama "Cairo Speech" was just the "green light" to democratic/theocratic revolutions.
And, it was "naive," in some respects, foresighted in other respects. The decision to assist NATO partners in Libya was a piece of both and it was a close decision...according to Robert Gates' memoirs. Gates, Biden, and initially Clinton, opposed our involvement. They were thinking tactically...what gets deployed where, how do we keep from going from the "assister" to the "leader?" The White House, largely, was thinking strategically. How do we reduce military spending and redeploy dwindling U.S. assets from military spending to domestic infrastructure? Obvious answer: By relying increasingly on "collective security," via multi-lateral defense agreements. [Obama also pushed for the Europeans to devote more of their GDP toward NATO...and achieved the 2% by 2020 commitment, at the Wales NATO Summit.] How do you ensure such a commitment? By illustrating that the increased spending will be matched by greater shared decision making. NATO had come to our aid, without us asking, in Afghanistan, following 9/11. Now, some of their major members (Spain, France, and Italy) were asking for U.S. support in the Mediterranean to stop a Gaddafi massacre of Libyan rebels in Eastern Libya, which would have initiated a massive influx of refugees into Southern Europe. Clinton went to Paris to hear their requests and returned with a changed mind...switching her support to the WH staff people and a vote for involvement.
My personal opinion is that Obama had, at that point, and earlier with his opposition to the Iraq invasion, decided the Middle East region was largely a "lost cause." He was suspicious of Netanyahu trying to drag the U.S. into the region in defense of Israel and had decided that China was the larger competitor globally. He approved involvement in Libya curiously on the same grounds as those who cautioned against it, a tactical decision necessary to appease NATO allies, whom he expected to carry a greater load in the region, as the U.S. shifted its own focus more to the Pacific Basin. But, he underestimated the influence of big oil (the oil producing states) and religion (Israel). Might have worked...the "reset button" with Russia might have moved relations with Russia forward...but then came Ukraine...and everything fell apart.

 

Oh well, so much for the Kurds. Allying with the USA is a dangerous step because we usually abandon our allies when we pull out of a conflict.

I was hoping the Kurds would get a state. Well, now that won't happen.

 

Sure I do, don't you ?




Grand Mufti and SS Brigadefuehrer Karl-Gustav Sauberzweig (the commander of the Bosnian Muslim Nazi Waffen-SS Division Handschar). The photo was taken in Yugoslavia in 1943.




The Muslim Brotherhood Nazi troops of the Waffen-SS Handschar Divisions are being reviewed SS Reichsfuhrer Heinrich Himmler .




In 1987, the Muslim Brotherhood in Israel created Hamas, whose members still use the Nazi salute (above) and read Hitler's Mein Kampf, which the Muslim Brotherhood re-titled, My Jihad, and translated into Arabic in the 1930s (Mein Kampf remains the #6 best-seller in the Muslim world today and a favorite among members of the Muslim Brotherhood

 

So Obama saved the world from complete global collapse by keeping his foot on the neck of American business? I guess his constituency was the UN rather than the US which is why we have President Trump instead of President Clinton Part Two.

We have had busy news days from the daily BOMBSHELL!!! attacks on the President by the left and their toady media, and yet he still stands, solid as the Rocky Mountains. The only ones getting muddy from all the flying bullshit is the socialist left as their mud guns keep misfiring.

 

True...but because a Democratic Congress threw the South Vietnamese under the bus, does that justify a Republican President from throwing a current ally under the bus as well?
Also, Ford didn't fight very hard for the appropriation he'd requested for South Vietnam. The Democrats were apparently willing to provide assistance to refugees, but not for additional military aid. As it was, the weapons we furnished and left behind made the new Vietnam the most potent military force in SE Asia.

 

Iran said it opposes any Turkish military operation in Syria so I tried to figure out why. At first I thought maybe it would inflame the Kurds in Iran, but then realized that Turkey will be fighting the Syrian army and the Iranians are embedded with them.

 

The Ottomans didn't control the "whole" region. The Middle East was under one roof politically during the Ummayad Caliphate (whose legitimacy the Shia vigorously denied and a Persian led revolt saw it overthrown and replaced with the Abbasid caliphate, which then saw fragmentation of the caliphate politically) and before then under the Persian Achaemenid empire. Otherwise, the region has throughout most of history been a battleground between the rulers of Anatolia (be they Rome/Byzantine or Ottoman) and the rulers of Iran.

While I have no desire to see a repeat of that history, here is brief account of the wars between Iran and the Ottoman empire over control of the region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman–Persian_Wars

p.s.
While the most famous wars between Iran and the Ottomans occurred when Iran was ruled by the Safavid dynasty (which established Shia Islam as the official religion of Iran), the last 3 wars between Iran and the Ottoman empire, in reverse chronological order, were the following:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Erzurum_(1821)
Battle of Erzurum (1821)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman–Persian_War_(1775–1776)
Ottoman–Persian War (1775–1776)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman–Persian_War_(1743–1746)
Ottoman–Persian War (1743–1746)

 

Actually President Ford did fight for continuing to fund the Saigon government and ARVAN forces and kept reminding the Democrats in Congress that if North Vietnam broke the peace accords agreement that the USA was supposed to bomb North Vietnam into the stone age.

But Congress passed legislation that American war planes were forbidden from dropping even one bomb in Southeast Asia and overruled President Ford's veto.

Actually the Democrats passed more than a few laws thinking it would prevent America ever getting into a shooting war again.

All volunteer military
War Powers Act.
Total Force concept that deploying anything larger than an Army Brigade would require calling up the reserves and National Guard.

How many times has American troops been sent into harms way since 1973 ?

In fact the War Powers Act makes it easier for a President to send American troops into combat.

 

The US is not throwing an ally under the bus. Washington wanted the Israeli friendly Kurds to have their own nation in Syria's oil and gas rich areas, which meant that the inhabitants would have to be killed or ethnically cleansed. Hopefully Trump is seeing the light, and decided to change our policies of destruction and wars to one of construction and peace..

The Turks have been warned now not to do anything to change the demographics of Syria by Russia, the US and Iran. .

 

You have an informed bias, but seem to forget that NATO's involvement went well beyond the U.N. mandate. Also forgetting that Libya was the most prosperous African country until we bombed it into a shithole.

 

It's not something that is open to opinion. BLM was proven to have lied and so did Obama andvthat scenario created the bad race relations we have today.
Again the Ferguson incident is NOT open for debate we know without question what happened and it wasn't hands up don't shoot. It was a bad guy trying to kill a cop.