Two Juveniles Killed <<Moderator's Warning Issued>>

Nobody is advocating for repealing laws pertaining to murder, robbery, or assault, are they?

Is anyone advocating for removing cars from society to prevent people from driving on the wrong side of the road?

 

Hello Torus34,

I've read a few of your more recent comments and I genuinely appreciate your civility. It is entirely possible to disagree on even volatile topics and remain respectful and polite.

I am a Veteran who is over 70 years old and have had extensive experience with a wide variety of weapons.
I have had at least 3 instances in civilian life in which having a firearm has saved me and / or others from malevolent individuals whose intent was clearly not to make me any healthier, wealthier or happier.

I firmly believe that I would not be writing this, today, if I had not been armed as the police were nowhere to be found and dialing 911 was not an option.

I occasionally target shoot and teach gun safety to people of all ages but even though I have a CCW permit, I rarely carry a pistol since I moved to a safer, rural area. Now I mainly bring a pistol with me so that I can shoot wounded animals hit by cars and put them out of their misery if they are injured beyond recovery.

Based on the comments you've written that I've read, I get the impression that you blame inanimate objects (guns) for criminal behavior even though determined killers will always find a way to kill a large number of people regardless of the availability of firearms.

It is at least my opinion that if and when firearms become difficult that even more people will die as criminals resort to crude but deadlier WMDs

The incident you cited was of a large party in which 2 people were killed. As an example I frequently cite(1), a determined killer who was angry at his ex girlfriend couldn't find a gun to kill her so he simply made a crude WMD that killed 86 people plus his ex girlfriend.
The "assault weapon" this killer used was primarily one dollar's worth of gasoline but he managed to kill more people than have ever been killed by any sort of firearm.

Finally, much political grandstanding has been made of school shootings. However, here too, the most people killed in any school mass killing was also not done with any sort of firearm but with a crude home made bomb about 90 years ago(2).

Anthrax, other Bio/Chem combinations, gasoline, and a cornucopia of explosives are only a few of the far deadlier WMDs that have and will be used to kill large numbers of people when only one is the target if and when firearms become difficult to get.

The root cause for murder and mass murder is the violence, not firearms.
There are numerous ways to address all deadly violence however attempting to change human behavior by manipulating inanimate objects failed with Prohibition, failed in the War on Drugs and fails wherever people do not realize that, by definition, criminals don't obey laws; new ones or existing ones.

Thanks,




(1) "Happy Land fire"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire

EXCERPT "González went to an Amoco gas station, then returned to the establishment with a plastic container with $1 worth of gasoline.[2][4] He spread the fuel at the base of a staircase, the only access into the club, and then ignited the gasoline.[5]

Eighty-seven people died in the resulting fire."CONTINUED


(2) "Ninety years ago, a school in Bath, Michigan was rigged with explosives in a brutal act that stunned the town"
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...chool-massacre-180963355/#KSipwm4IUrIbB9uc.99

EXCERPTS "In the end 44 people died, 38 of them students. It wasn’t the first bombing in the country’s history—at least eight were killed during the Haymarket Square rally in Chicago in 1886, and 30 when a bomb exploded in Manhattan in 1920. But none had been so deadly as this, or affected so many children."CONTINUED

 

Hi, Grau.

Yup, we can most certainly converse about hot button topics without getting snarky or nasty. I appreciate that for you, having a firearm ready to hand made a real difference in your life. I'm sure you're not alone in that. Guns have saved, and will continue to save lives. They will also continue to take lives, unfortunately.

I don't place blame on guns, nor on bullets, nor on gun owners. I do note, whenever I can, that all three are required to produce a firearm homicide. It's not a matter of blame, but of understanding.

There's no quick and easy path to reducing firearm deaths in the US. Compared to many modern democracies, we are a more violent society, taken as a whole. Changing our culture, or modifying the violent tendencies in of one or more sub-cultures, is a daunting task. Our politicians pay little heed to what information is available from our sociologists. And it is from the realm of politics -- 'us', writ large -- that effective action is needed.

Regards, and best wishes to you and yours.

 

Hello again Torus34,

Thanks, again for your kind words.
While we obviously agree that there are no quick and easy ways to reduce firearm deaths in the US, I think that we'll get no where only by focusing on firearm deaths when far deadlier mass killings occur using crude WMDs and other readily available weapons:

EXCERPT "There is much focus this week on the role of guns in mass murders. But the history of such atrocities teaches us that other methods can be just as effective.

Common methods used throughout our history include axes, hatchets, blunt objects, knives, hanging, drowning, poison gas, poison, fire, and aircraft (and not just on 9/11). Some of the rarer weapons demonstrate that where there is an evil will, there is a way. Scythes. Blowtorches."CONTINUED (1)

In spite of the fact that a determined and violent killer will always find a way to kill, less ethical politicians and self appointed "activists" have found that members of crime ridden communities would much rather condemn inanimate objects (firearms) than confront their criminal friends, criminal family members and local gangs.
Blaming firearms absolves people of accepting responsibility for their own criminal activity and the criminal activity of those that they know.

Even though America is frequently compared to other democracies and "Industrialized" / "First World" countries, the differences are too many to draw any meaningful conclusions (2).

Perhaps the most meaningful difference between the US and Europe, Japan etc is that comprehensive mental health care is more readily available, accessible and affordable. Of course more affordable and accessible mental health care would be more costly to Americans than more feel-good-do-nothing gun laws but it is the only way we are going to address America's murder rate in any significant way.

Many thanks and best wishes,



(1) "Mass Murder without Guns"
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/mass-murder-without-guns/



(2) "The Mistake of Only Comparing US Murder Rates to "Developed" Countries"
https://mises.org/wire/mistake-only-...oped-countries

EXCERPT " Note, however, that these comparisons always employ a carefully selected list of countries, most of which are very unlike the United States. They are countries that were settled long ago by the dominant ethnic group, they are ethnically non-diverse today, they are frequently very small countries (such as Norway, with a population of 5 million) with very locally based democracies (again, unlike the US with an immense population and far fewer representatives in government per voter). Politically, historically, and demographically, the US has little in common with Europe or Japan.

The US has the highest murder rate in the "developed world" — presumably because of its lax guns laws —we are told again and again.

Few people who repeat this mantra have any standard in their heads of what exactly is the "developed" world. They just repeat the phrase because they have learned to do so."CONTINUED

 

Ok the citizens are now legally barred from owning guns. How or why is irrelevant.
What is your soulution for protecting the citizens who now have to worry about the criminals who will obviously ignore this/these new laws?

 

never said they should be banned from all citizens, were talking about drunk gunning

I 100% support the second for all free Americans, even ex-felons that have done their sentence - all Americans have a right to protect their homes and families

 

Woke Media Attack Florida Sheriff Who OK’d Citizens Shooting Home Invaders

"... Sheriff Johnson discussed the homeowner who had fired at Harris, who never came forward.

“I guess they think that they did something wrong, which they did not. If somebody’s breaking into your house, you’re more than welcome to shoot them in Santa Rosa County. We prefer that you do, actually,” Johnson said. “So, whoever that was, you’re not in trouble. Come see us. We have a gun safety class we put on every other Saturday. And if you take that, you’ll shoot a lot better and hopefully you’ll save the taxpayers money.” (emphasis mine)

And lo, did the wokescolds wail and moan and get their knickers in a twist:

“...wildly irresponsible advice that could cause needless loss of life and aggravate racial tensions.”

NPR didn't bother to look at the mugshot; the choirboy in question is a white dude. Sheriff Johnson is a riot - of the choirboy he says "For us, he's job security." If you have a good sheriff, support & get to know him/her. If the fit ever hits the shan, a sheriff's dept may be your only uniformed ally.

 

This was not the fault of guns.

Look where this happened.

 

Hi, mudman.

Thank you for responding to my post.

It should be noted that my reply, which you take exception to, [Ed.: Are you an administrator or monitor of this forum?] is a polite way of ending a thread which has come to comments which are snarky, not germane to the topic, rude, or just plain silly. In extremis, I no longer bother to read nor respond to the posts of some people.

Regards, stay safe 'n well 'n remember the Big 5.

 

Hi, kazenatsu.

I did not state which of the three factors needed to produce death by gunshot -- a shooter, a gun and a bullet -- was to blame. It takes all three in combination for the vast majority of gunshot deaths. At present, there are but a very few venues in which they have not occurred.

Regards, stay safe 'n well . . . 'n un-shot.

 

Fortunately I do not live in a crappy neighborhood with gang bangers on every corner.