UK court criminalizes information about making weapons

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by kazenatsu, Sep 3, 2021.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A court in the UK (England) has set a disturbing precedent in a case, which could criminalize mere information about how to make weapons.

    This is all part of a wider phenomena of the "criminalization of information".

    This also has to with vague laws and how they are interpreted by courts.

    The man in question here was sentenced to a "two year suspended sentence", meaning he does not actually have to spend those two years in prison, but only so long as he follows special requirements set by the judge.

    In my personal opinion, this is an outrageous infringement on individual rights and the right of free speech.

    Ben John had been found guilty of one count of "having in his possession a record of information likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism" under Section 58 of the Terrorism Act. A jury found him guilty on August 12, 2021. The man lived in the city of Lincoln in the East Midlands region.

    Authorities had seized his computer and and found a hard drive containing a radical publication, which had originally circulated in the 70s, which contains diagrams and instructions on how to construct various bombs and explosive booby traps.

    But that's probably not the only reason he was arrested. He also had a huge number of documents downloaded onto hard drives which "white supremist" and "anti-Semitic material", as well as material related to a Satanist organisation.

    Counter Terrorism Policing East Midlands Detective Inspector James Manning, led the investigation in partnership with regional and national agencies. He said: "This was a young man who could be anyone's son, studying at university, and living one life in public, while conducting another in private. "He possessed a wealth of National Socialist and anti-Semitic material which indicated a fascination and belief in a White Supremacist ideology along with support for an extreme satanic group which is increasingly of concern for law enforcement agencies. The terrorist material he was found in possession of is extremely dangerous, and he acquired this to further his ideology. It indicates the threat that he and other followers of this hateful ideology pose to National Security. It was not light reading, or material most would concern themselves with for legitimate reasons. This has been a long and complex investigation over the course of 11 months."​

    Convicted terrorist sentenced (lincs.police.uk)


    Now, if any of you cannot see the problem with this, imagine at some point in the future, the mere possession of information about how someone could build an illegal gun becomes made illegal. Someone could be arrested simply because they had information on their computer, and for no other reason.



    Judge Timothy Spencer told the defendant that he could stay out of prison as long as he reads classic books and plays by Jane Austen, Charles Dickens, William Shakespeare, and Tom Hardy, the Telegraph reported.

    "Have you read Dickens? Austen? Start with 'Pride and Prejudice' and Dickens' 'A Tale of Two Cities.' Shakespeare's 'Twelfth Night,'" said Judge Spencer, reported The Telegraph.


    I can see why authorities might have considered him a terrorist risk, but so much for individual rights. This individual was arrested for beliefs and having information.
    That is getting to be a totalitarian society people are living under.
     
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  2. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Rights are only as good as ones ability to defend them. No gun rights equals no other rights.
     
  3. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member Donor

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    Had this person used a gun while being arrested, he would still have been arrested. Or dead. I'm not defending what the court did in this case, but saying guns would have made a positive difference in this matter is disingenuous, to say the least.
     
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  4. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    And if guns had been allowed in the Warsaw Ghetto, Lodz, etc., perhaps Auschwitz would never have happened.
     
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  5. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's your honest thought?'Cuz by that time the Nazis were already in control and the Jews had guns. It seems those were ineffective in the end.
     
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  6. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Philip Luty knew this all to well, the author of the home gunsmith, hated by the crown. He reveals how simple firearms are to fabricate with simple tools any modest metal worker has. His submachinegun is interesting, if highly illegal. At least in the USA info is legal.....for the time being. Jeez, I bet "poor man's James bond" would be harrowing to them!
    I'm sure it's the "progressives" who set this dangerous precedent in the UK



    The Home Gunsmith
    https://thehomegunsmith.com


    Philip Luty died on April 8, 2011 after a two year struggle with cancer. This web site will be kept online as a memorial. —Ken Holder
    9mm Machine Pistol · ‎12g Pistol · ‎Video · ‎A simple "Zip Gun" design



    Home Gunsmith author P.A Luty arrested | - | News ...
    https://amodestpublication.wordpress.com › 2009/06/09


    Jun 9, 2009 — It seems the British government have decided to kidnap Mr. Phillip Luty once again, this time it's rumoured that supposed “incitement of ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
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  7. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    quote from that site:

    On 22nd May 2009 the Homegunsmith (Philip A. Luty) was, for the fifth time in ten years, attacked by an armed police unit and violently arrested at gunpoint.

    In their latest onslaught against freedom of speech, press, personal expression, and dissemination of ideas, the henchmen of the State charged the Homegunsmith with "criminal offences" - namely "Making a record of information likely to be of assistance to terrorists." (Part of the all-encompassing 2000 Terrorism Act.) That's right folks, writing books or articles on one of man's oldest occupations - gunmaking - is now tantamount to an act of terrorism in modern day Britain.​
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
  8. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Well in fairness, I do believe he was caught with some of his illegal firearms but I think it was the books themselves and their publication that first Drew attention to him.

    Did you know as long as one is not a quote unquote prohibited person, you can legally make your own firearms in the USA.

    But I do believe, you have to apply for a serial number from the ATF if I'm not mistaken. You can give the gun to someone who is qualified to own them but you cannot sell it.

    They must want to put you under the prison in the UK for sharing information in the poor man's James Bond.
     
  9. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No. He was prosecuted for illegal firearms in the late 1990s, then was later released from prison. They re-arrested him in 2009, that time he did not have illegal firearms.
     
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  10. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That level of misunderstanding is extreme. I was not suggesting an individual with a gun prevents unjust laws from being imposed any more than having one sheep in the flock with sharp teeth prevents a trip to the slaughter house.
     
  11. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member Donor

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    So you're saying that if the guy's government were different because the society he lived in was different, he would not have been arrested. On the other hand, last time I looked, England was a parliamentary democracy, with elected lawmakers. That would mean that society as a whole is responsible for the man's arrest.

    I offered my statement as a reductio ad impoosibile, or indirect proof that your premise was mistaken.

    Edit: I understood what you meant. I thought you could see what I was getting at.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
  12. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And you would be correct. By the time the government grows to this level of abuse, its too late for a gun.
     
  13. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's not abuse if the people call for it. And they did, or the Thatcher government would have failed a vote of no confidence over the Firearms (Amendment) Act of1988, which outlawed semiautomatic weapons and limited sales of some shotguns. In 1990, she did fail such a vote, but it was over a poll tax.

    You do understand that Brits and other Europeans aren't Americans with funny accents, right? They have a different point of view than we do and a whole different way of thinking.
     
  14. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I respect all points of view. I do not see this as justice.
     
  15. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    I have observed "real men" all my life.There were bunches of hem in my West Point Class and at Ranger School. But there was also a 14 year old "real man" that I encountered in Iraq who walked miles each way every day to for a few dollars cleaning our barracks so he could care for his mother and sister after his dad was killed by terrorists. I recently saw a "real man' on TV. He was a Marine Battalion Commander who sacrificed his career calling out the irresponsibility of his superiors in the Afghanistan fiasco. I see "real men" regularly on TV who have sacrificed their limbs and more for freedom and continue to drive on in life.
     
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  16. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's just my point. You're not one of them. They see it as justice. They think differently than us. They have a different value system than us.
     
  17. Bow To The Robots

    Bow To The Robots Banned at Members Request

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    How about 400 million guns?
     
  18. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    330 million Americans... only 300 million guns... c'mon folks! buy more guns! (look at the Kel Tec P50... great new entry)
     
  19. Bow To The Robots

    Bow To The Robots Banned at Members Request

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    The estimates are closer to 400M.

    Kel-Tec makes some off the hook product, but I'm not sure the P50 would be my first choice for EDC.
     
  20. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Don’t have a problem with it especially the bit you conveniently LEFT OUT

    During his trial it emerged that forensic computer investigators found a hard drive in his possession containing a radical publication originally circulated in the 70s which contains diagrams and instructions on how to construct various explosive devices. It is illegal to knowingly possess material that could assist in terrorist-related activities.

    Explosive devices - you know the things that go BOOM!
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2021
  21. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    EDC? "Off the hook"??? Can you say again in English this time?
     
  22. Bow To The Robots

    Bow To The Robots Banned at Members Request

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    Nazi gun confiscation of Jewish guns started in 1933, a decade before the Warsaw uprising.
     
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  23. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

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    And they did a damned INSPIRING stand against tyranny with what little they did have......I have no use nor time for the "I'll grab my ankles if you pretty, pretty PLEASE don't hurt me" types.:no:
     
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  24. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Mine think it ‘mazing!

    NOT ONE OF YOU HAVE ACTUALLY READ THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE!
    :deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

    This was NEVER about guns it is about someone with a whole stinking heap of radical terrorist material and the makings for some serious bombs

    This is illegal in nearly every country - including America
     
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  25. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

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