Thats great analysis...things may change in the far future? Well when anything happens that might concievably change things then come back but until then its a no-go And they are ridiculous nationalist nutters. On what possible basis could Wales be in any financial position to be independent? Given that the Bulk of the population is in the South and generally fiercly anti separatism and the 'special rights for welsh speakers' policies. Its not English people who object to welsh linguistic chauvinism and the demand that Welsh assembly civil servants be bi-lingual, we couldn't care less, Indeed English people settling in Welsh speaking areas are the most likely non Welsh speakers to want their children educated in Wlesh speaking schools. Its Welsh people who object the most. One of my colleagues is from Newport and if you want to rile him up just say something in Welsh to him. Considering the huge numbers of the Wlesh population emp0loyed in Civil service you would have to have an incredible change of circumstance to make indepence even possible.
Do you mean 'liberal' or 'Liberal Democrat'. I'm both. I think as a party we have been 'do anything to get power'. We have two quite distinct factions - a liberal one and a social democrat one and that doesn't include the 'we are just the traditional opposition in the celtic fringe' bit.
Anyone can write a manifesto. If I write a manifesto and say that I can grow wings & fly does it mean that I can grow wings & fly? as legal as extremism can get - in the words of an Englishman from my online gaming team. Of course UKIP are not that stupid. They don't wanna risk becoming illegal. Your belief in papers again...
Manifestos do seem to indicate teh direction the party intends to go. Normally they aren;t able to fulfill the manifesto Illegal? We don't ban political parties in the UK
Some are not able to go as far as their manifesto goes, others find it hard to stay within its confines once they get the power. You would if they declared different races inferior and worthy of deportation. As far as their deregulation paradise goes, they would only make the poor Englishman even poorer by creating a too favorable environment for the biggest businesses that includes among others lessening of taxes and therefore less money for the country and its more vulnerable people. UK is already a place where the big make the biggest moves and make decisions between themselves only that impact all the country. Those UKIP are there to be the last drop that fills the glass; they are exactly the corporatists and the elitists that euroskeptics complain about. People think that by voting them they run away from an EU bear but actually arrive straight into the fangs of a certain UK wolf that will tear the flesh off you indiscriminately till all UK elites are totally fat and satisfied and even afterwards.
Lol you even need examples to believe that nothing is certain / nothing is to be taken 100% for granted. Then good luck with the slaughter of the 'impure races'. That's just the problem! Those who have the power there now are already Centre-Right; maybe just a little bit too much... And to think UKIP want to deregulate even further... therefore give more power to the already very powerful elites. Thhey're just criminals in plain sight. Regulation is what's needed there not deregulation. Don't forget that I was active in the academic environment there for one year very recently. I'm not talking fromn my imagination. Which there happens more than anywhere. They represent businesses the most in the sense that they think the market is not free enough while the UK market is already headed anarchic. I never said that they are officially Far-Right. For now they are not. Otherwise they would lose votes.
Ah you had no evidence...thought so So your talk of illegality was just nonsense then and you make up even more rubbish to wiggle out <<<Mod Edit: Personal Attack Removed>>> The big companies love regulation because they can afford taff to deal with it. It helps weed out the little people who can;t cope. OOH you must be an expert then. I am A full time british academic <<<Mod Edit: Personal Attack Removed>>> Evidence please See above But you have sectret knowledge because you spent a whole year in the UK AND you were with the 'environmentalists' big wow.
Look at Russia, Greece, Italy, Romania, Austria 1995. It was just my opinion. This isn't an investigation by the FBI where my report has to be accurate, believed and filed. It's just what I suppose. Yes, that's exactly what I said. Regulation. That's what's needed and that's what's wanted by the sane ones. If the big companies want it too, good for them. You study marine life don't you? That's nice. I like the sea. Why not move more around Europe? What are you talking about?
Look at Russia, Greece, Italy, Romania, Austria 1995. Again no evidence, just your prejudice Some regulation is very good, other regulation stifles business for everyone. I am not a Marine biologist. I am a Historian How do you know how much time I have spent and where? <<<Mod Edit: Personal Attack Removed>>> Your absurd claims to know about the UK because you spent a year there.
UK is not the only country in the world. If it happened in other countries it could happen there too. If it didn't so far that doesn't mean it can't. If UKIP won it would. But first let me ask you a question: When did you become 'we'. Aren't you a bit of a newly arrived to know so much about the UK soul, wishes and to be so patriotic? You say Thailand. <<<Mod Edit: Personal Attack Removed>>> So this is a forum for prejudices and people to be angry at each other. Examples pls. Your turn. You mean you know Europe and its ways more than you know South-East Asia. You either are anti-patriotic or if not give me a break. So were you at the age of 21. You can't enter the academic world without parent support. I did work the last summer, having a physically very demanding job.
Uk is the only country we are discussing and you have no evidence that UKIP would do any such thing But first let me ask you a question: I'm British. Born in Britain. Educated in Britain, served in the British Army. I am a guest lecturer at a Thai university whilst I write a paper on an aspect of Thai history And you so wrong <<<Mod Edit: Personal Attack Removed>>> Sure EU regulations mean that farms are paid not to produce food for instance. Obviously businbess needs to be regulated but the idea that more regulation equals a better world is not the case. We need the right amount of regulation not too much andnot too little I know Europe vastly better than Asia. I have lived in France, The Netherlands, Germany and Russia At the age of 21 I had been in the Army for 2 years and had just been promoted to Lieutenant in an Infantry regiment.
UK can't be that different than the others. Its parties are run by humans with 2 arms and 2 legs just like the other countries. But not the parents. If UK had some colonial troubles around Thailand that would involve Thailand you even would fight Thailandese troops wouldn't you? If people wouldn't question things based on the statements of the judged ones then biggest surprises would arise. These forums are not for people to say 'oh what a sunshine everything is'. We will see. Wait a few more years. EU is The Way. Politically and economically. Sad. Blame NATO for removing my chance to enter service.
All people are the same. Corruptible. UKIP has no seats in Westminster. How come they are not embarrassed as hell to say they talk in UK's interest in the European Parliament? Let me tell you why they got seats in the EU Parliament but not in the UK one. Because the British are very civic about their national duties and voted, and outnumbered all UKIP voters but, typical of the British, they forgot about anything external - so they didn't bother to turn up to vote in the same high numbers in the European parliamentary elections. Now, the fanatic UKIP supporters, angry that their party didn't win any seats went and very methodically voted them in whatever was left, the European elections. And that's how UKIP entered the EU parliament. Because in many UK regions mostly their supporters turn up for the EU vote. So you say all your grandparents are UK born? Then it means ALL of your great-grandparents (8 people in all) must have arrived there around the First World War or earlier... during the Victorian period, or who knows maybe even earlier, in the Georgian period. How odd. How come there's no Thai people mentioned in Pride and Prejudice? It's interesting though that in the 1910s and 1920s Europeans including British were desperate to migrate to America and yours came to Britain ... Living in a number of countries without identity is sad. Living with identity is good, even in all countries of the world.
They don;t speak for the UK, they speak for their constituencies who elected them No they won because fptp is in use in Westminster elections and PR is European ones. Bollocks. Its the voting system. UKIP will never muster enough votes to win first past the post but they get enough in PR. Study the electoral system before you make grand pronouncements . I'm not Thai <<<Mod Edit: Personal Attack Removed>>>. I'm British and Live in Thailand because I have a visiting professorship. What are you talking about? Of course I have an identity . I'm British. I'm a blonde haired blue eyed Briton. From England. Mixed Scottish and English Ancestry. <<<Mod Edit: Personal Attack Removed>>> I joined the Army at 16 years of age. I never took a penny from my parents after my 16th birthday,Its called self reliance. I served my country for 7 years then went to University at 21. I spent 8 Tears getting my doctorate because I had to take a year off to rejoin during Gulf War one as a reserve Captain. I stayed as a reservist until 5 years ago leaving as a Major
Of course anyone can write a manifesto and there is no legal requirement to carry out any manifesto promise if elected. If your point is that UKIP needn't stick to their manifesto, I'd say that applies to any party. We've had bitter experience of political parties not sticking to manifesto promises here. With politicians it is a question of trust as much as anything else. That's classic! It must be so because someone from the internet said so. Perhaps your online friend could tell you which UKIP policies are extremist (or your other accusation, "far right" wing) to give some backing to your non-argument? Perhaps he could quote the relevant parts of the UKIP manifesto, or maybe you could just think for yourself and find this information by yourself? Here's a link to the manifesto again. The party's manifesto for the impending local elections is also available on its website. Please see page 14 of the "Scotland" thread here from December last year. YOU: "Most English don't watch foreign European TV and I'm not talking about Euronews here." ME: "... I watch TV from all over the world not just Europe, and most of those of us who are interested in politics are keen users of all kinds of sources via the internet, because we know the mainstream media here tells us only what it thinks we need to know and only a biased version at that." YOU: "Obviously I wasn't talking about you. Had I thought that of you I would have stopped responding ages ago." Now you say: "Your belief in papers again..." Your earlier comments seem to contradict this ^ comment now. Care to explain?
Cop out. All political parties portray themselves as fair. It doesn't stop some of them stabbing people in the back once they don't need their votes. In the Lib Dem manifesto*, it said "Phase out university tuition fees within six years. Scrap fees for final-year students immediately." That was soon junked when the Lib Dems got a sniff at power with the "mouthpiece of the wealthy" and tuition fees went up. *I'm assuming you're a Lib Dem after your reference to the "two larger parties".
Of course this is somewhat different than my assumption. I kind of forgot that in the UK there is election by representatives. Though I have the proof I knew about it before posting that post. This proves I actually know about the UK general elections system if I think more carefully about it. The post was in another thread, some time ago, significantly earlier than my last one: Everyone has memory flaws from time to time. I really forgot about the Uk election system as you can see. Just didn't make the connection at the moment. Though I would have had I searched deeper into my mind. And I totally admit I went off-course. But unlike you or tamora I admit when I get some technical aspect wrong. Of course it is somewhat different than my hurried & clumsy momentary assumption. But the result with UKIP is exactly the same: fptp or whatever is there filters unwanted UKIP elements successfully. Same result. That's all that matters. That's the point. And the EU Parliamentary elections system does not. Bad for them. I did. I know the basics. And it wasn't grand. You wanna see grand? Being Briton, blonde, blue eyed, doesn't give you any identity in any way. Not as long as you migrate to Thailand and call yourself Thai. Cut the self esteem out. Most people depend on their parents till they complete their masters degrees.
Trust - something which UK people and the international community do not have in them. In other words, anything that nothing is. That is what they -UKIP- have. I do trust my friends. We've been chatting live on TS3, so with microphone for many months. Even if he's wrong, he sounds like the majority of UK voices and that's all that counts. I've been to their website already. Their policies/papers are not the point, thanks. Their attitude. I judge people by that and most people do that. Few people in the world read manifestos/papers/policies before they vote. Admit that. Common people unanimously agree that, before the elections, reading those manifestos helps just as much as an etiquette of Domestos. tamora fantasmagora, you can't get me with anything because unlike you I say what I think. Your memory should be just as good in remembering that even before we had this little conversation we talked, just previously, about the USSR red treaty versus the EU Treaty of Lisbon where I pointed out your beliefs in papers. I did so several times in that period. So even before we had this little conversation that you quoted I mentioned your pointless belief in documents yet you didn't react when I said: "Obviously I wasn't talking about you. Had I thought that of you I would have stopped responding ages ago." Remember? Remember how I said before then, in our discussions about dictatorships and comparisons between the USSR unification /EU Treaty of Lisbon that I don't believe in papers (documents) and that I don't care what the Treaty of Lisbon says... Remember? Anyway... Papers has more meanings. What I meant there in what you quoted is not newspapers but documents/treaties/books/promises/bibles (your UKIP bible). I wasn't talking about the press. Obvious to any forum reader.
That isn't actually true. It is generally the case in the South East of Wales, but certainly not in the South West - once you get West of Cardiff, the balance of opinions on both issues starts to change quite rapidly.
From time to time, yes, but you have them quite regularly! When did I not apologise for getting some technical aspect wrong? Actually, when did I get some technical aspect wrong? They are no 'filters'. For a small party to win under FPTP, concentrated support in individual constituencies is needed. That's why regional parties do well under FPTP. Have a look around the BBC's General Election pages for more information. The map is interactive and will show you the results in any constituency you care to look at. I disagree with The lucky few can, or have bursaries from sponsors, but most are in debt for thousands of pounds. In addition British taxpayers (and graduates are likely to be among them) are funding millions of pounds worth of study for thousands of EU students who never repay their loans! And as for the EU, the UK and democracy ... Elections cannot change policies in the EU. They can in the UK (and other member states). That's why they are democratic and the EU is not.
I am also very much both. I agree that we have been guilty sometimes of 'opposition for oppositions sake', particularly at a local level (less so at the National level, although we have done some silly things like having MPs sign up to an unrealistic promise that they couldn't keep to win the vote of a certain particular section of society - I'm sure I don't need to mention which one!), and for me we do have problems with some of the more 'nanny state' and less 'liberal' ideas coming from the old SDP. I don't always agree on every party policy, but of course I wouldn't expect any other thinking human being in any party to do that - a political party always has to be a fairly broad church, and there will always be different ideas and opinions floating around. At least we generally tend to have a fairly open and honest debate about such things.
That was all actually costed in the manifesto, and would have been implemented had the Lib Dems won a majority. they didn't. they formed a coalition, with an agreement that was drawn from their manifesto and that of the Tories. That means that some things from both manifestos will be done, and some won't. That's nothing to do with it being 'junked' with 'a sniff at power', it's the reality of politics when no party wins an overall majority on their own. The mistake the Lib Dems made on that issue was in signing up to an unrealistic separate pledge that could not be guaranteed in the event of a coalition negotiation, not in setting out what they would want to do in government in their manifesto.
My first one since on PF...as far as I can remember Too tired to look through the old discussions now. Conclusion is nobody wants to create the conditions for these parties to have a chance (nobody wants to bother to think to do it). In Romania top grades students do not pay anything. Lower grades students do pay tuition fees but they are not even close to how high they are in UK (Here it's typically €500 a year!). When it comes to students, higher education institutions in the UK seem more interested in their money rather than in their brains (it seems I will lose my privileges though, I didn't score as high in my last series of exams. ) We have several world class Romanian universities (world top 100 / Europe top 50) including mine. How come they can with limited funds and yours can't? How come they can without stealing the breath of their future adults with a debt of 27000 pounds for a 3 years degree and yours can't? French youngsters come here to study medicine because it is almost free for them (courses taught in their language). We have renowned specialists here and the degrees are valid anywhere in the EU/EEA and in the United States. To think that the EU doesn't benefit its people... Think again. And the EU have said they are going to fix that in the federal treaty and I believe them. UKIP have behaved like pigs in the parliament and I don't believe them.
