Ukraine: another revolution is needed?

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by SeanT, Dec 31, 2015.

  1. SeanT

    SeanT New Member

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    Less than two years after the bloody revolution which took thousands lives it transpires the current new government is actively involved in and providing a cover for the old but alive more than ever disease - corruption. According to the governor of Odessa it is rife everywhere, new government officials work in cooperation with old ones towards robbing the country of whatever is possible. The gdp has dropped over the past 2 years and it is estimated it will take about 15 years to return to the level at which the country was under the predecessor of the current president. Officials steal shamelessly without any fear; people say a new coup is needed. Maybe its a hidden psychological illness population of Eastern Europe are afflicted with, that makes them unconsciously do things irrespective of their will, the only cure for which being an oppressive totalitarian dictatorship?
     
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  2. General Winter

    General Winter Active Member

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    There was never a one revolution in Ukraine.Coup and revolution are not the same things.
     
  3. Chibs

    Chibs Member Past Donor

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    Pretty much this.
     
  4. SeanT

    SeanT New Member

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    I was just wondering did those people no longer with us know the difference between the two? I understand that its a super high intellectual forum and my question is so simple it deserves no consideration. So if Ukraine carries out a new real revolution will it at last achieve its goal of becoming another Netherlands or Germany or dreams get shattered? Probably there's a big laugh in the west again. I know of one successful revolution and that was in Russia in 1917. In todays reality for Ukraine cooperation with Russia was a smaller evil than with the corrupt and lying stronghold of "democracy and human rights" by the name of EU. No doubt change is needed; but it wont ever happen until you remove the core of the cancerous tumor - which is situated in Moscow.
     
  5. Strangelove

    Strangelove New Member

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    Ukraine indeed needs a new revolution. Not because the first one was a coup, this narrative is plain wrong. Wanted and achieved by the masses it was a revolution, even if it took a wrong turn and made the mistake of strengthening right-wing tendencies. If there would be a new revolution its primary goal should be to distance itself from the right-wing nationalist elements and to stamp out corruption. I don't know much about the internal affairs and situation of Ukraine (news are usually about the armed conflict) but a chance for a new revolution at the moment is probably scarce.
     
  6. SeanT

    SeanT New Member

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    In any revolution there should be a leader who has a genuine very thought out concrete plan that is good for society (like Lenin had in 1917), otherwise it is going in circles, catch22. Ukrainian so called leaders dont have it. A goal of any changes should be well understood. For example ukrainians strive for western values and hope that by closer cooperation with europe their country will become economically developed; it will never happen; historically formed wealth distribution in the world as of today will remain the same for a long time if not forever. I will explain why sth that could generally be successful somewhere will never work in this region of former USSR. People's mentality: only when you execute publically several, maybe others would stop stealing, until then - anything useless; personal qualities - big impediment to innovation and development; extremely severe climate conditions, huge distances, poor communication - nature kills without war; 1 small error and you are in the grip of the forces of nature, no way out. Market economy is playing games, on this land no place for games; only PLANNED economic system is possible or none. Russia is a good example which after 26 years since transition to market is a petrol station only existed to this day due to high oil prices, Ukraine is worse; Russia cannot even produce basic foods despite having abundant agricultural resources that are wasted/unused only because of private ownership of land. The best times this land has ever witnessed was during and after Stalin. He by implementation of strict measures and punishing some brought order and saved lives of millions, created reasonable democracy and prosperity. The result (accidental or deliberate?) of todays instigation of conflict in Ukraine by the countries -pillars of democracy and human rights is people's fear of any change, loss and destruction greater than any terrorist group ever caused, support of corrupt govnt in Ukraine and cementing tyrant Putin in Russia into power forever.
     
  7. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    1. Dictatorship is always coming with any coup. Counter-revolution (termidore) will happen sooner or later in any way with every revolutionary. Democracy comes only when a piece of paper with some written words is proven to be respected by all the people. Both at the top and the bottom. It takes time. Not long. About 40 years (the time needed by Moses stays actual even now). Ukraine had a chance in 1990. It was missed. Whether it uses a second chance (if it still has it which I doubt) will be seen around 2050.
    2. For now it is seen that all the rhetorics of Maidan was a deceitful marketing for corruption and slavery. The more often europeans will say that it is not their responsibility - the less chances is left for Ukraine to get onto the level of EU. In fact those officials who came to Maidan and told that if revolution is done and blood is spilt - then there will magically come law and prosperity are responsible and as long as they were voted for - every european has its responsibility in the current situation in Ukraine.
     
  8. Lancer

    Lancer New Member Past Donor

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    A US/NATO sponsored coup results in a government just as corrupt as the last...only beholden to different patrons...who could have seen that coming. :roflol:
     
  9. scorcha

    scorcha Banned

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    I suppose a new revolution will take place.
     
  10. scorcha

    scorcha Banned

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