Ukraine Since You Can't Provide Battlefield Success To Your Supporters At Least Demonstrate Effort!

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by JimfromPennsylvania, Aug 13, 2023.

  1. JimfromPennsylvania

    JimfromPennsylvania Active Member Past Donor

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    The Ukraine government is not bracing themselves for the difficulty in getting additional military and economic aid from the United States to fight their war against Russia. There is a large faction of the Republican party and a large number of Republican voters that don't support Ukraine's war to defend against Russia taking their sovereign land; make no mistake these Americans are acting bad they are absolutely wrong but that makes no difference these Americans have practical power that will impede and eventually will likely obstruct America's war assistance to Ukraine. These Republicans reasoning is multifaceted but their anti-Ukraine views have the strong potential to grow. Their main reasons stem from simple partisanship the Democrats are for the war so they are against it so they can get an edge during elections and possibly get back into power, these Republicans don't think Ukraine can win Russia has a lot of weapons and ammunition plus they are backed by powerful allies like China that don't want Ukraine to win because if Ukraine wins Russia will be permanently dramatically weakened so this nemesis of the United States and NATO will be dramatically weakened which they don't want and so they will backstop Russia with whatever it needs to not lose this war. Additional main reasons is that Putin represents right wing authoritarianism many Republicans like this ideology, it is anti-union, anti-LGBT, anti-human rights and anti-minority to just to list some so these Americans don't want to see this right wing ideology side lose the war; if Ukraine wins because of the Ukrainian character and natural wealth it will be a prosperous country with widespread prosperity amongst its people and many Republicans are vehemently opposed to such a society they want a society that promotes and protects a wealthy class at the expense of the masses so they do not want to see the rise of a strong society that opposes this view. There is other minor views amongst these Republicans but there is too many to list all of them; like some think the current Ukrainian government is a corrupt government why should America prop up a corrupt government, some think America's real threat is from China and its territorial ambitions in Asia not from Russia and some of these Republicans think we should be spending the money sent to Ukraine on the China problem, as if this is the practical choice.

    To address this deteriorating support from the United States problem the Ukraine government should be releasing the Ukraine military's casualty figures on a monthly basis how many Ukranian soldiers, sailors and airmen have been killed and seriously wounded where they have lost a limb or a significant portion of an organ in this war against Russia. The Ukrainian government has to understand that what the American public hears in the media is that this promised and promoted Ukranian counter offensive is essentially a failure that the Ukrainian military's progress on the battlefield is extremely minor that what America and Ukraine's allies are facing with their support of Ukraine is essentially a stalemate and indefinitely into the future America sending large amount of money to Ukraine year upon year with basically no change in the outcome of the war. The Ukrainian government needs to give the American people an additional compelling reason to support their government in Washington to continue aiding the Ukrainian government in this war. It would help the Ukrainian government's cause if American people that understand the utmost serious gravity of this war could say to their fellow countrymen and countrywomen yes the counteroffensive is going extremely slow often a week goes by with only one or a few small Ukrainian towns recovered by the Ukrainian military but the Ukrainian people are fighting with great earnest and zeal "X" numbers of Ukrainian soldiers have been killed and "Y" number of Ukrainian soldiers have been seriously wounded in the last month the American people must support this great sacrifice of the Ukrainian people to combat this alarming threat to international order of a brutal authoritarian government taking the sovereign territory of a neighboring country, the American people must support this keeping the door locked on the aggression that the world saw during the twentieth century with the unlawful conquering of entire countries and the killing of tens and hundreds of thousands of people in this process! If the Ukrainian government cannot document success on the battlefield for all the military and financial aid the Free World has given Ukraine, at least document the effort the Ukrainian government is making on that front!
     
  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This may be a little off topic to this conversation but it is very interesting and notable that Republicans are the ones who seem to hold more reservation about getting involved in the Ukraine conflict, while Democrat leaders and the media seem to be almost unanimously enthusiastic about it.
    Usually it is the other way around (for example with Iraq and Afghanistan).
    We can ask why this is and probably lead to some interesting conclusions and insight.

    I think maybe the real reason has to do with global Right-Left political allegiances. Democrats (in U.S.) see Russia as "the Right", and Russia also threatens the European Union's sphere of influence. The European Union is very progressive and seen as "the Left", so Democrats feel allegiance to it, want to try to help it.
    The majority of Republicans see Russia as a rival and possible threat, but see little to gain from a war and most are reluctant to get involved.
    There are of course many war-hawk Republicans and many peace-wanting Democrats, but they are currently the minorities in their parties.

    I would guess the mainstream Republican view would be to try to prevent Putin from expanding but be willing to make some concessions and try to avoid a conflict. Republicans seem more focused on the potential global threat of China.

    It is partly a political strategy as well because with Democrats seeming to be in control, Republicans can sit back and let the Democrats take most of the initiative, which both Republican and Democrat leaders know will hurt (or strain) the Democrat's support because there are many Democrat voters who very much dislike war.
    Which is why I think the media has been working overtime to try to drum up enthusiasm for involvement in defending Ukraine.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2023
  3. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    You are dismissing the fact that Russia started this war in 2014 and committed a full scale invasion in 2022. Russia is committing war crimes and we as a good nation have are not in favor of committing war crimes. Ukraine is at this time of course with our help along with the EU ( most EU countries are in NATO) is holding the eastern flank of Europe. Europe is an important trading partner of the U.S. therefore that is an important driving force as to why we support Europe.
    I am not advocating and have not advocated for US or NATO forces on the ground. Aid to Ukraine is a must.
    Sadly the Republicans who do not want to support Ukraine are Trump toddies and have bought into his pro Russia anti Ukraine stance. There are some Republicans and Democrats who want to withdraw into ourselves and think that will be a way to avoid war. This type of foolish thinking led to Pearl Harbor and to Germany declaring war against us. FDR found ways to support the British with weapons and aid because he understood that we could not have stood alone. He knew war was coming and we would need allies and a foothold close enough to Germany and German controlled Europe when war came. Those people who thought the oceans would protect us were wrong.
    Russia may use the threat of nuclear weapons and attack Poland and the Baltics if it captures Ukraine. Trump being anti NATO would find a way to “use his art of the deal” to reward Russia and let them take a part of Europe. That would very much weaken us and that is what China is waiting for.
    So we need to support Ukraine and Eastern NATO nations to keep Russia at bay. We are lucky that Biden ( who I have issues with) has been building up allies in the Pacific who will be essential when China pushes war on us.
    Europe would lose economically is China ends up controlling the Pacific zone even though some of them think that the ocean will protect them.

    As I said before that is what the isolationists thought before WWII.
     

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