Understanding Transmission

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by HumbledPi, Mar 30, 2020.

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  1. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    Masks do not reduce your chances of getting this infection but masks are highly advised for people who are sick or have already recovered from an upper respiratory infection. A face mask is to protect others. In other words, the primary importance of a face mask is so an infected person doesn't infect others. A face mask protects against contamination from a sneeze in a elevator or other small space. Once a face mask gets damp, it creates a Petri dish atmosphere for bacteria and viruses and will be more harmful than helpful to the average healthy person. Face masks are of secondary importance for the average person. Medical personnel treating infected patients on ventilators don't really even need a mask. A ventilator is a closed system with many filters, whereas treating a patient that's in a hospital bed who is coughing would surely present opportunity for infection. The greatest danger for medical personnel is treating patients with gloved hands and masks, then removing them and not washing their hands adequately then touching their face, even the touch it takes to put a face mask on may contaminate their face.

    About gloves. Gloves will protect a person from picking up the virus on bare hands, but that's not enough nor is it effective at stopping transmission of the virus. The gloves you wear to shop with, touch surfaces with, etc. get contaminated very rapidly. What happens next? You scratch your cheek, you blow your nose, you rub your eye, you touch your lips. The gloves transfer any virus directly to your skin and ports of entry. So what can you do if you choose gloves? First they have to be changed frequently and I don't think anyone has as many disposable gloves in their closet to change them as much as is needed for protection. So you can wash them with bacterial soap, that will get rid of the virus, but then the next time you touch a handrail, an elevator button or any hard surface, consider your gloves to be contaminated again. Gloves give people a false sense of security and they touch even more surfaces, then without thinking, they touch their face someplace and the virus is transmitted from the gloves. You load your groceries into the car with contaminated gloves, you transfer that inside your car, to your steering wheel, shift knob, radio, cell phone, etc.

    China and the UK have been doing intensive studies, as many countries including the US are doing. What they've found is that transmission through droplets or aerosol by inhaling them is very low yet when those droplets reach surfaces and settle on them, they can remain active and can infect someone who touches that surface for ten days. Yes, if someone that's infected coughs or sneezes within 6 feet of your face, there's a good chance you'll inhale those droplets and be infected. If someone sneezes inside an elevator then yes, a sneeze can shoot mucus and saliva 4-6 feet away everyone in the elevator is doomed and then. But then all the mucus and saliva lands somewhere on a surface, and sticks there so again, the mucus and the saliva will not keep floating on the air gravity does not allow that it's basic science and then, the virus cannot escape the droplets and it will not go airborne again.

    Following the science of modes of transmission, here's the bottom line according to both studies. Don't touch your face with your hands. Wash your hands or use an antiseptic hand cleaner frequently. Wear a mask if YOU have symptoms so you don't pass it to others. The safest way is to remain in self-quarantine, go out only if absolutely necessary, keep your hands clean, that's the biggest factor here in addition to social distancing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
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  2. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thats a big change from the panic you supported in the other thread. What changed your mind?
     
  3. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    Research and common sense. If you touch it, whatever it is, you may have it on your hand. Hand washing is not only important, it's vital.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
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  4. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree. Very wise.
     
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  5. SkullKrusher

    SkullKrusher Banned

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    And not licking statues and portraits of Mao and Muhammad may reduce your risk also
     
  6. ModCon

    ModCon Well-Known Member

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    Bullhockey, a mask will reduce the risk of infection, otherwise medical staff wouldn't bother with them.
     
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  7. Crownline

    Crownline Banned at Members Request

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    The good thing that is going to come from this is going to be general personal hygiene. The things you posted should be normal everyday routine that predates the China virus with the exception of gloves and a mask. It blows me away that people will go to Costco, push the cart around, touch freezer door handles, and then grab a sample from a food vendor and pop it in their mouth. NO NO NO!

    This is an eye opener for a lot of people and let’s hope these habits live long after the China virus is in our rear view mirror.
     
  8. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely! I've been saying this for weeks. Maybe now, people might get the idea that personal hygiene protects yourself from bacteria and viruses. But, some ignorant people will rebel against these precautions and continue with their old habits of blowing snot into their hand then rifling through the grapes at the supermarket. That's why, no matter what I buy, whether it's a bottle of milk or orange juice, fresh produce or frozen peas, I wipe the packages of every item with a Clorox wipe before I even carry it into my house. And I try very hard not to touch my face at all until I can use a hand sanitizer or wash them good with soap and water.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  9. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    Of course, medical personnel needs to wear a mask all the time, and they should be changing that mask if they're doing direct care from patient to patient. But people out on the street taking a walk outside with nobody even close to them is unnecessary. Of course, if someone has had the virus or has symptoms, they should always wear a mask to protect others from catching it.
     
  10. Crownline

    Crownline Banned at Members Request

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    Not a bad idea. Humans in general are pretty disgusting creatures.
    I’m not lying when I say my wife has been wiping down her shopping cart handles and baby seat for well over 25 years.
     
  11. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The best way to halt the spread would have been for everyone to wear a medical mask. Then few people would be spreading it. Many people do not even know when they are infected and of course if everyone is wearing one then you do not need to worry about protecting your eyes as their mask will protect you. Everyone wearing masks appears to be one of the major ways South Korea used to massively slow down the spread. I am not sure why Western Countries have been trying to put their people off wearing them. Obviously because they do not have them but that could have been changed quickly. Possibly the desire for 'herd immunity'

    Was watching a video tonight and research appears to show that one of the things which can best protect your immune system is heat. A bath is good but heat and cold even better. Watch how Sweden, Norway, Finland and Denmark are doing on deaths. They all use saunas regularly especially the Fins - but this was a report of massive scientific research and it does suggest this would help to strengthen your immune system. The virus goes for those with poor immune systems. Exercise makes it even better.
     
  12. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    Anyone with symptoms should wear a mask. Anyone who has had it, should wear a mask so they don't keep passing it. If a person has been tested positive, they have to self-quarantine and wear a mask if they absolutely have to go out. That person, if they don't wear a mask can infect someone only if they cough or sneeze and the virus is airborne. The World Health Organization stands by their recommendation to not wear masks if you are not sick or not caring for someone who is sick. The contamination is coming from contact from surfaces which the virus can live on for 10 days or more.

    South Korea slowed because of the extensive testing and quarantining they've done.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  13. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It isn't enough that people only wear a mask when they have symptoms. Some people do not have symptoms and it is known that people are able to infect others before they themselves show symptoms. That is why masks work when everyone is wearing them.

    From what I hear the current belief is that people who have had it do have immunity. We don't as yet know for how long. Therefore they would not need to wear one. However I believe we would get better compliance from everyone if everyone wore one.

    Well WHO has been wrong about several things in this and this is one of them. Others have been taking so long to call it a pandemic and claiming it is not airborn.

    If your interest is to stop people giving the infection to others then the No 1 way to achieve this is everyone wearing a medical mask. Stopping the infection of course can be further helped by shutting your borders and mass testing with contact follow up and isolation of those found positive.


    No that was part of it but it was 4 fold. Borders shut, massive testing, contact follow up and isolation and everyone wearing a mask. To dismiss everyone wearing a mask is to miss the simplest and easiest way to stop the spread.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
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  14. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    Not everyone can wear a mask simply because there just aren't enough of them. The masks get damp from exhalation and viruses love damp, moist areas. That's why ultra violet is effective for killing most viruses. People that wear masks tend to touch their faces more often, either they're re-adjusting their mask or the mask simply doesn't have a good fit. Once people start touching a mask or face with their hands, they are contaminating themselves. And the surgical masks we see people wearing are intended for single use. People wear the same mask for days and even weeks if there are no more in supply.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  15. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There was a doctor who has been treating Corona virus patients on Watters World last weekend. He stated that the key (as you point
    out) is not to touch your face without washing hands. Do ghost and you will be Okay.
     
  16. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    Great post.
     
  17. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    I've always found the torque converter to be the real pain in the ass.
     
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  18. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    At least you can see and feel that sonafabeech.
     
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  19. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Research I heard just today was saying COVID is appears to be 2.5 times more able to transmit infections than the flu. I was driving so I couldn't review all the details.

    It didn't seem to change anything except to say people should do the same kinds of things but more so!
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  20. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A mask doesn't protect in the sense that ur safe while wearing one, but it does help. Not only does it block mucus particles, but it does catch some virus.

    Most of us are not going to get infected by inhaling one individual viral body. Most of us will get infected by inhaling a hundred billion viral bodies. Somewhere between those two extremes is the number your individual immune system can defeat before they're able to replicate, and a mask is a good way to reduce the number that get into your system. Additionally, if nothing else, it reduces how often you subconsciously touch your mouth with contanimated fingers before you are able to wash/sanitize them

    Goggles/glasses substantially increase your resistance as well, as the virus can get in through your eye membranes.

    Its true that no mask filters the virus entirely, as the virus is too small. But some virus will cling to the fibers instead of entering your body (which also means the mask itself can become infectious- don't rely on one mask all day). But a mask will generally reduce how much virus your immune system has to fight. And that is worth it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  21. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    An infected person could touch 100 things before and after he washes his hands, including the faucet handles.
     
  22. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That’s why the next person who touches those surfaces must wash their hands before touching their face.
     
  23. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    Oh, at least 100. That's why people have to get accustomed to never putting their hands up to their face. If an infected person sneezes, the droplets will land on hard surfaces and dry. The virus can live on most surfaces from hours to days. As far as faucet handles in public places, I have been in the habit most of my life to not touching the handle to shut the water off without using a paper towel.
     

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