Waiting for Superbatteries They are still a long way from matching the energy density of liquid fue

Discussion in 'Science' started by 19Crib, Nov 30, 2022.

  1. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    By the time it's viable I'm betting gas will cost more that $3 a Gallon. Of course, when demand drops the price of gas will magically drop and we will find out it is viable to sell gas for a lot less. But that's a whole other ball game...
     
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  2. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  3. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    It is Time to Talk About “Capacity Factors”
    Charles Rotter
    Since the easy locations have already been “used up”, one can expect average natural capacity factors to decline over time… contrary to what Net-Zero plans assume . . .

    On Conversion Efficiency

    Below figure summarizes energy conversion efficiencies for wind and solar and the laws they follow. Conversion efficiency measures the ratio between the useful output of an energy conversion machine and the input, in energy terms, thus after accounting for capacity factor.

    [​IMG]
    Figure: Laws of physics limit technological improvements for wind and solar
    Source: Schernikau and Smith Research and Analysis, Figure 11 in Book “The Unpopular Truth… about Electricity and the Future of Energy”, www.unpopular-truth.com
     
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  4. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Endangered critters. Diane Feinstein before she went senile wanted to build a huge solar farm in the Mohave desert outside the LA “region”. The environmental weenies killed it off due to shading the ground or some nonsense. IMO, desert critters love shade. It would be a snake and critter zoo. Or buffet, depending if you are an eater or eatee!
     
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  5. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

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    In my mind, true super batteries should last for years.

    So I could see 2 forms of true super batteries.

    1
    Using mini LENR reactors. In theory, you can make them as big or as small as it needs to be. A water heater style unit could power your house. A AA battery stile unit could power your electronics.

    Recently $10 million was awarded to further study LENR.

    ARPA-E to award up to $10M to study LENR

    The US Department of Energy (DOE) announced up to $10 million in funding (DE-FOA-0002784) to establish clear practices to determine whether low-energy nuclear reactions (LENR) could be the basis for a potentially transformative carbon-free energy source. The funding is part of the Advanced Research Projects Agency-Energy (ARPA-E) LENR Exploratory Topic, which aims to break the stalemate of research in this space.

    A goal of this Exploratory Topic is to establish clear practices to rigorously answer the question, “should this field move forward given that LENR could be a potentially transformative carbon-free energy source, or does it conclusively not show promise?”

    https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/09/arpa-e-to-award-up-to-10m-to-study-cold-fusion-lenr.html

    2
    The second battery would use radioactive waste. Melt it down and create Corium. Then Put mini pellets in a shielded container the size of a battery. And use this nano material to make electricity

    Nanomaterial turns radiation directly into electricity

    Materials that directly convert radiation into electricity could produce a new era of spacecraft and even Earth-based vehicles powered by high-powered nuclear batteries, say US researchers.

    Electricity is usually made using nuclear power by heating steam to rotate turbines that generate electricity.

    But beginning in the 1960s, the US and Soviet Union used thermoelectric materials that convert heat into electricity to power spacecraft using nuclear fission or decaying radioactive material. The Pioneer missions were among those using the latter, “nuclear battery” approach.

    Dispensing with the steam and turbines makes those systems smaller and less complicated. But thermoelectric materials have very low efficiency. Now US researchers say they have developed highly efficient materials that can convert the radiation, not heat, from nuclear materials and reactions into electricity

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13545-nanomaterial-turns-radiation-directly-into-electricity/
     
  6. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The obvious problem is security of nuclear material. Awhile back I brought up submarine or aircraft carrier size reactors in severe places like government buildings, military bases, police stations, etc.
    Either way, the future is coming!
     
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  7. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

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    Even the internet started as a top secret communication for the government.
     
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  8. ryobi

    ryobi Well-Known Member

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    Gold really has very little value other than the value people have given it.

    Even if Gold were as plentiful as Iron, you would never build a skyscraper out of it.

    It's kind of funny.

    The Holy grail of alchemists and then chemists was to create gold from other elements and that has become a reality.

    Researchers created Gold from Mercury by bombarding Mercury with Neutrons.

    It's very expensive to do so and is not practical but it will become practical.

    Researchers changed another element into gold very quietly....shhhhhhhh......
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2023
  9. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it does have some value, especially in the electronics industry. Gold is used in almost all computer chips, and a lot of the traces used in them are made from gold.

    Granted, like in silver and platinum a lot of the value is in the bullion form for investment and speculation. However, there is an actual value because it is also used for actual creating of things.
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Amen.

    That quote back there about not building skyscrapers out of gold is just a bit of ignorance about materials science and engineering.
     
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  11. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not saying that we Americans are as technologically advanced as the Greeks, but they have been able to run their energy grid, just recently, 100% on renewables.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/10/13/1128737392/greece-renewable-energy-electrical-grid#:~:text=The Greek electrical system has,Operator, or IPTO, said.


    Granted, their sunny climate & oceanside location, make Greece an advantageous location for both solar & wind power. Nevertheless, it shows that those who think renewables are nothing but a pipe dream, are mistaken. There are many different options; and no one is saying that we could transition by going cold turkey, in abandoning fossil fuels.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2023
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  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Amen. Greece is noticing the assets and appears to be making solid choices.

    I'd also point out that there are solar companies in CT that will put solar on your home for free if you sign a contract to share the cost differential with them.

    Nobody would confuse CT climate with that of Greece. However, that doesn't mean that solar energy is uneconomic, especially as solar panels increase in efficiency.
     
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  13. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    I only want to note, that I do realize that Greece is on the Mediterranean Sea, and so that I should have called its location "seaside," not "oceanside." (I'm adding this, in advance of any on the opposing side of the argument, pointing to that carelessness in my speech, as proof of my ignorance on all things, generally.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2023
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  14. ryobi

    ryobi Well-Known Member

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    Though the reasons why buildings aren’t made entirely out of gold are very standard. For example, gold cannot hold up a 12-story building. On the flip side, it can hold a statue or a pillar, and of course, small decorative

    1- Gold cannot be used as a base for any structure because it’s not safe especially pure refined gold (ex: pillars from pure gold can’t hold a big structure of several floors). Gold should be used only as decoration (ex: Decorate a window or a door).
     
  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Are you really thinking that you have some idea to push here???

    As was pointed out, whether one can build a skyscraper from some substance is totally irrelevant to ANY question other than whether it is useful for that particular task.

    And, gold IS highly useful in constructing certain important products - as was mentioned.
     
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  16. ryobi

    ryobi Well-Known Member

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    I have a BSc in Chemistry
     
  17. ryobi

    ryobi Well-Known Member

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    I knew gold is used in electronics. One of its few uses.
     
  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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  19. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Germany has been doing that off and on for a while
     
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  20. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Some still think it is :p
     
  21. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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  22. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    & UK (wind)
     
  23. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    I see you fear the data.
     
  24. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    An extremely important, and valuable use.
     
  25. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    A problem here, as I understand, is that these batteries rely on rare earth elements; but the main source of these, is China. There has been found a rich source of these on the ocean floor, in the Pacific: the Clarion-Clipperton Zone (CCZ). And there is a U.N. agency, with authority over managing this, as part of an international treaty, which Bill Clinton signed, but which we have never ratified, because of 22 Republican Senators. So this area is being divided up among countries-- with China playing a leading role-- while the U.S. remains "on the sidelines."

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...ocean-floor-60-minutes-60-minutes-2019-11-17/

    Here is a short NY Times piece, with a lot of video of the very rare creatures that live in the CCZ. This is an aspect of the issue, other than the economic and national security one. Mining the rare earth nodules, has been compared to clearing the Amazon Rainforest, in its devastating effect on these many, only recently discovered species.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/29/world/deep-sea-riches-mining-nodules.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2023

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