What A Sustainable Health Care System In The U.S. Might Look Like

I'm a big supporter of each citizen EARNING their healthcare. Health care has always been part of my compensation, like salary or vacation. I'm not rich... just average. I kinda like the doctor's comments here, although he seems to be a proponent for a very dull, boring life. Again, there is no one-size-fits all solution here.

 

We pay via tax levy of 2%. Doesn’t cover everything but our system works

 

In your country of Australia, you have a total population of a bit less than 27 million, so it seems to make sense that your health care system is easier to manage, and because you have fewer population centers, it is surely more efficient.

Over here in the States, our total population is estimated to be 340 million, and we're even more spread-out than you in Australia are, with many more large population centers. In land mass, the U. S. is the fourth-largest country in the world. I guess my point is that 'socialized-medicine' always seems to work best in smaller countries, with much less population, like many in Europe, for example.

One question about your system in Australia, please. Is everyone required to be enrolled in it, and to PAY into it? If so, I can see how Australia's could be a model for some countries to use.

 

I couldn't disagree more. It is individual providers that are capable of compassion, not government. Those in government are primarily concerned with perpetuating their jobs. Government is the least efficient way to do just about anything. The fact that the American system is so incredibly expensive with poor outcomes speaks to the incredible levels of corruption in a system controlled by corporations who have captured their regulators, not individual ineptitude.

 

I understand how national health care works. Germany and Japan have two of the best systems in the world, but neither could compare to the American system before the corporations and government made a complete mess out of it.

It's like saying, please beat me with a strap because that's better than beating me with a club. National health care systems are not the answer to the health crisis that all societies face. Staying healthy is the answer. You do this by taking responsibility for your own health through eating properly, sleeping well, exercising regularly and keeping your mental and emotional health in balance.

The poor health that most of the developed world enjoys stems from poor health habits [which need to change]. People cannot continue to live like they are and expect everybody else to bail them out by spending absurd amounts of money. It's that simple. The days of running up incredible amounts of debt and printing money to pay for all of this non-sense is coming to an end...SOON.

 

Well an "earned" healthcare is kind of what we have right now. Most people get their health insurance from their employers, and as a system, it's worked fairly well.

 

We all know that the key to good health is rare red meat, beer and potatoes.

 

That'll work [unless you eat/drink like a glutton].

 

Why should your employer have to pay for your healthcare? Do you want them to pay for your home insurance and your car insurance too? The reason that health insurance became so expensive is because employers were paying for it. If the end user is not paying, the price is always going to increase.

 

I would never work for an employer that didn't provide medical coverage. Why would I possibly want to do that? Employers that want valuable employees entice them with great benefits from medical care to vacation, to education and more. My employer DOES pay for my home insurance and car insurance too... although that's indirectly. In those cases I write the checks, but the dollars come from my employer, Medical is a little different. There's no way I could dicker for insurance rates like my employer could. I'm just me... but folks like Boeing and Lockheed had the bargaining chip of 100,000+ policies.

 

I would really love to visit Australia, especially the area right around Perth. I may be completely wrong, but it looks to be an absolutely wonderful place in every respect. One suburb I've read about called Joondalup seems to be ideal!

 

You make an EXCELLENT point! And that exactly why a 'single-payer' system could be the ideal solution. Imagine the bargaining power of a customer-base involving nearly everyone in the United States! Surely, collectively, we could put out requests for bids from the biggest healthcare providers (or even consortiums of them) and make the best deals for the best prices and the best conditions. Nothing makes bidders 'sharpen their pencils' like TONNAGE!

 

The obvious answer is for people to work for large organizations that can do that. There are some small business organizations that link small businesses together to allow them the same bargaining power. I'm all for that oo. I just want to ensure that I'm not paying for someone else's coverage. Health care is a personal responsibility. But some financial guru might make it work. My wife is a CPA and I when I see what she does, it seems to make heart surgery look easy. (I'll just stick to lasers, communications and such.)

 

This is one of the many problems of having mega-corporations that nobody can compete with. It's much like the government. Whereas those who work for large corporations and the government are doing great, the rest of the economy suffers. There are reasons for these disparities.

And it's amazing that no matter the mechanism whereby people have others paying for them, they always feel entitled. I know, you believe you earn every penny of it, but keep in mind that a fair percentage of the profits made by many huge corporations are born from rigged contracts and all the rest. Who do you work for?

 

I never saw anyone "rig" a contract. Indeed, when CUBIC Corporation was competing for a TACTS/ACMI (TOP GUN simulation training system) for Saudi Arabia, I watched as the Saudis told CUBIC to add $10 million to their bid so they could give it to the PRINCE and it would insure they won the contract. It wouldn't have cost CUBIC a dime and they would have won the contract. But it was unethical so CUBIC refused. They lost the contract but remained honest. On another occasion I was working with Lockheed on another combat training system for Apaches. I noted a discrepancy in the specification and brought it up to the VP of engineering. I told him that since we caught it before we actually built anything, we make changes at little cost. He told me to be quiet because if we waited until we were fabricating a prototype it would cost millions to make the changes and we'd make more money. The CEO brought us into his office and fired the VP. I was rewarded with stock options. He made the ethical decision... and a lot of customer trust.

I did not feel "entitled". I worked my butt off in school from spelling and arithmetic tests through history quizzes and all the rest. I worked hard in high school and competed for and won a slot at West Point. During my Army career I held many positions that gave me an understanding of the military, how acquisition worked and what Soldiers needed. I also earned an MBA while on active duty. I was not "entitled"... I worked my butt off and EARNED it all.

 

I am sure if you would chat with sports and Hollywood stars, they feel as if they have earned the USD20M+ incomes, as well. People have developed amazing skills for rationalizing their good fortune.

Reality suggests that we are at the end of a period of crony capitalism that is fantastically fraudulent. If you don't believe there is any corruption in the business of securing government military contract, I am not sure what to tell you.

That doesn't mean that I do not appreciate your hard work and achievements but you have to ground yourself somewhat realizing that things are the way they are for good reasons. For instance, in 1950, Detroit was the richest metro area in the country and Wash DC, the poorest. Today it is just the opposite. Why do you believe that might be?

 

Through a quirk of history, it became an incentive to attract workers. Now of course under Obamacare it's a requirement to provide it buy employers above a certain size.

Sorry but it's the law.

 

Our system is NOT like Germanys plus it is a two tier system. If you have private insurance that comes off that levy. It has also made billing for private health simpler. We do not bill for every meal/service we have a standard rate per bed per day pharmacy is extra though. This in and of itself keeps costs down.

Bottom line we have a small population spread over an area the size of the USA and we are STILL paying less than you are per person.

 

I would support a law in my state forbidding employer health care. It should be like homeowners, auto, and life insurance.

 

The way I see it: Healthcare insurance that is provided by an employer, even if the employee makes partial payments, is designed as an incentive to work for them as the employer seeks-out the best help available. That and it wouldn't surprise me if once an employer has a good employee.... they'd want them to stay healthy.

Now if you consider labor unions forcing, or lets just say influencing, employers to pay for employee healthcare insurance...... that's a whole other can of worms, and I'm not a fan of labor unions.

 

Of course it's the law but what does that have to do with what's prudent?

 

Why do you believe this is the case?

 

Any type of benefit paid by anybody other than the actual recipient of the service is going to be inflated or is going to be a very poor quality service. Compare Medicare [which is incredibly expensive BUT benefits tens of millions of active voters] to any other government program.

The transfer of income from younger working Americans to older retired Americans [for Medicare and SS] is a travesty that is not sustainable.

 

FWIW: I received Blue Cross / Blue Shield from three different employers. I don't know about what the rest of you think of them, but as far as I'm concerned...., well, I got top-notch doctors and paid coverage was good.

It will be awhile before I can personally speak of any govt healthcare programs.

 

No relation!