What do we do about Climate Change

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Jul 10, 2023.

  1. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I start again this thread the same way I have to start all threads about the topic. This is not about demonstrating Anthropogenic Global Warming. AGW is a consensus scientific conclusion, and the PROOF is in the form of thousands of peer-reviewed studies done over the course of over 100 years. The AGW consensus was established over 20 years ago, and the predictive models that followed it are becoming reality NOW!

    So the question is, what do we do next?

    If you "learn" your science from Fox, Breitbart, InfoWars, Tucker... or any of the hundreds of pseudo science pages out there you'll hear...

    Liberals want to FORCE you to:
    -Dump your gas guzzler.
    -Not fly
    -Dump incandescent light bulbs
    -Not eat meat.
    ...

    Wrong, wrong, wrong!

    I mean... if they make you feel warm and fuzzy... by all means. And they might help... a bit. But individual action is not going to ameliorate the problem much. Not in the short term, at least. But the demagogues in the afore mentioned fake news outlets are quick to show videos of Al Gore in a private jet, or of an EPCC panel meeting serving steak. Stop the binary thinking! That's all fine!

    What is needed is POLICY. A policy of supporting the development of environmental-friendly technologies.

    For example, Electric cars are promising. But they DO still produce quite a bit of greenhouse emissions: in production and generating electricity to run the vehicles. Of course, over the life of the vehicle, they produce LESS than a typical gas powered car. Well... we need policies to encourage auto makers to make them MORE environmentally friendly. Research to accomplish that should be one of our first priorities. But, even as things stand now, electric cars and hybrids are a great benefit.

    We have seen much progress in food production. We just need to continue.

    Basically the plan is not to bankrupt non-green businesses, but to make green companies successful. If non-green companies refuse to evolve, that's on them. But they can! There is plenty of room. New technologies need to be more profitable. This is an opportunity for businesses, not an obstacle.
     
  2. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    green rooftops for starters
    more solar panels
    Kill plastic bottles ALL TOGETHER. so what if you have to play an extra dollar for a glass bottle
    Unfortunately they don't actually give a crap, they just want you to think they do so they can use the "crisis" for votes
     
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  3. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That won't work. But enacting policies that support research on the development of less expensive containers that are biodegradable or recyclable will. THAT is what will ameliorate the problem. NOT "killing" anything.
     
  4. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, which involves paper, which requires more mass than plastic to achieve the same thing and a higher environmental impact.
    Glass still wins and it is in abundance.
    Like i said, they are not taking it seriously.
    There's so much that could be being done right now.
     
  5. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So now we know what won't work. We all know many things that won't work. The idea is to find out what will.

    For sure the right (in both parties) isn't taking is seriously. So there are many things we could be doing.... Many policies... But the donor class doesn't want us to do them. Don' think that the fact that they own more politicians on the Republican side means that no Democrats in power have also been catering to their donations..
     
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  6. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Believe it or not, Las Cruces and El Paso doesn’t take glass bottles for recycling.

    59A2B3D8-C29B-4064-9013-202AFC1E9C9A.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2023
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  7. Green Man

    Green Man Banned

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    What to do about the weather?

    Once last year I went to the mail box to fetch the bills durring a storm. There was this huge squall line coming and I could see a funnel cloud starting to form as I stepped onto the driveway. By the time I got to the mail that cloud formed a tail and was wreaking havoc on a cornfield about a mile away. It really was a spectacle.

    So I'm standing at my mailbox watching the tornado when this caddilac comes down the road at a good clip. I waved, and point at the tornado. The driver stopped, backs his caddilac right up to me an says - "HOLY **** A WHIRLWIND! WHAT DO WE DO!!??

    I though about it for a bit. Then I said, "You just let it whirl".
     
  8. HockeyDad

    HockeyDad Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agreed global warming is happening and it is happening due to man pumping CO2 into the atmosphere. This explains the MASSIVE and UNPARALLED greening of the planet and crop yields. You are asking the wrong question. The right question is why would you want to stop global greening and reduce the crop yields? Would love to see your answer to the question.
     
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  9. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How about, for one, because due to CO2 related climate change the world is losing arable land?

    The world has lost a third of its arable land due to erosion or pollution in the past 40 years, with potentially disastrous consequences as global demand for food soars, scientists have warned.

    New research has calculated that nearly 33% of the world’s adequate or high-quality food-producing land has been lost at a rate that far outstrips the pace of natural processes to replace diminished soil.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/02/arable-land-soil-food-security-shortage#:~:text=The world has lost a,food soars, scientists have warned.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2023
  10. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry. Can't help you if you don't know the difference between climate and weather.
     
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  11. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    So for mankind to survive we must change the climate of the earth? You think we can convince every country to get on-board that program? Heck, we can't convince some countries to stop killing people in other countries. Meanwhile, I'm going to enjoy my gas guzzling pick-um up truck, incoming money from my mutual funds, eating a juicy ribeye once a week, and buying my sodas in big ole plastic bottles. But you feel free to move into a cave, crap in the woods like a bear, eat seeds and berries, and run around sans clothes.
     
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  12. Green Man

    Green Man Banned

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    Meanwhile, it takes about five gallons of diesel to raise an acre of corn.

    China has gotten it down to zero gallons in some places, but I cant recommend slave prison farms for the US.
     
  13. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    And I love my corn and eat a lot of it. I'm glad it's plentiful. I don't care if it takes six gallons of diesel to raise an acre of corn. I'll pay extra and be glad we have diesel fuel. Drill baby drill. Pump baby, pump.
    Yeah, I also wouldn't recommend slave labor. Let China use slave labor while the USA uses farm combines. We're doing it right.
     
  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    LOL!

    About 10% of the total US corn production is used for food.

    About 1/3 of that is used for high fructose corn syrup. So, human consumption of actual corn is about 7% of total corn production.

    About 45% of corn is used to make ethanol, which mostly gets burned for fuel, by adding it to gasoline, etc. We can reduce this with EVs, which also save us healthcare costs in our cities, as burning crap on our city streets causes expensive health problems.

    The rest is for animal feed - using corn strains that humans wouldn't want to eat.
     
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  15. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    I say we don't give the government total control of the citizenry. Stop pissing away tax dollars on bullshit ideas that won't work. Stop sabotaging the country in the name of "saving the planet".
     
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  16. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Nuclear Power Plants.

    It's the most obvious and easiest solution if you really want to reduce man made CO2. The largest share of man made CO2 in the US is power generation. Solve that and everything else falls into place.
     
  17. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that there isn't a climate issue or that we shouldn't allow our government to address such issues or that some proposed solution won't work?

    One could more easily answer if you had a clearer statement.
     
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The cheapest power generation right now is wind and solar.

    The most expensive power right now is nuclear.

    It's a more conservative solution to move toward what is effective and lower cost.
     
  19. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    You've made that point many times on this forum, but it's irrelevant to energy policy because wind and solar are inconsistent power sources and can't replace natural gas and coal because you need a scalable power source that you can simply increase power to meet demand. Wind and solar doesn't work that way, and when it stops working you're left with nothing.

    Of course I want the ability to generate as much electrical power as we need or want, but I realize others feel differently.
     
  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I don't accept your claim concerning scalable power.

    We have a long way to go before that is an issue - power at night, etc.

    Plus, there are directions for handling that issue. We are building giant batteries and battery like technologies. We already have the need for grid improvement, where that needed improvement is needed by all generation technologies and helps with moderating use. We have time of day charging technology that is useful in moderating load.
     
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  21. Par10

    Par10 Well-Known Member

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    Wind and solar both require normal power plants to be available. Therefore they aren't the cheapest because you have their cost plust the cost of the coal/NG/Nuclear, etc.
     
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  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The assumption you are making is that current fossil fuel power generation isn't sufficient as support for cheap green energy.

    I haven't seen serious analysis suggesting that.

    Creating cheap green energy doesn't require the building of more fossil fuel or nuclear plants. In fact, there are some reasons to believe that there is synergy possible. For example, solar energy is strong during times where air conditioning is a major consumer of energy.
     
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  23. Par10

    Par10 Well-Known Member

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    No, what I'm saying is that you can't just have solar and wind. The sun doesn't always shine and the wind doesn't always blow but you always have demand. Therefore you have to have to have backup supplier that is capable of 100% of your power need even if you don't use it at 100%.
     
  24. Pieces of Malarkey

    Pieces of Malarkey Well-Known Member

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    Nothing. Until there's an actual reason to do something.
     
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  25. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    You might find this story interesting

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/science...ug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles-phev/102555428
     
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