What do you make of "Omicron" (COVID Variant B.1.1.529)? Big deal? No big deal?

Be as angry and condescending and uninformed as you wish to be, but that does not mean that you know what masks do or not.

 

You can't take the intellectual high ground with an ad hom. Everything I just put down is true.

Thats just the reality of the situation.

If anyone here pushing masks was actually sincere, they'd be pushing a vyzr mask because of its design and effectiveness.

But y'all are just virtue signalling or grand standing with this cloth mask theatre nonsense while the virus just freely does it's thing regardless.

Don't fret though. Its morphed itself into the common cold now. So you can relax under your face shield and cloth mask. Lol

 

Contrary to popular belief, and thanks to a thing called Brownian motion and another one called electrostatics, certain masks (N95, N100) do filter out the SARS-CoV-2 even though it is tinier than the masks' pores. I know it sounds counter-intuitive but it is a fact demonstrated in physics labs. Otherwise your post is correct. But don't spray Lysol on your masks. There are better sterilization methods. Look up the one that involves electric ovens set to 160 degrees and a cupful of water. Also one might use an UV wand.

 

I was on vacation, not browsing the literature. Back today, too busy catching up to look it up. I have to go. Sorry.

 

Welcome back, and I hope you enjoyed your vacation. You are a light in a too-often quite dark room....

 

Wait a minute. Who is "y'all"?

The bolded: this is untrue.

 

Meh... now when did the 'common cold' ever throw somebody into the hospital, all by itself...?

I'm not an 'alarmist' by any means, and it's not that I think that COVID is anything as horrible as *The Black Death* or anything, but I am double-vaxxed, and boostered, too. Still, to think that what may (MAY) be a 'step-down' in lethality in Omicron from what Delta has been may be a bit premature and somewhat overly-optimistic. Plus, remember, this damned virus hasn't finished mutating yet....

 

It's not a may - MAY, may anything. It IS more than a step down in lethality then Delta by spades. (Delta which, if you were not with 3 comorbids and in your 60's was also not a risk) I have raw data that tells me so, while all you can post here is articles that want to cling to the fear mongering by stating "it's too early to tell".

No. It's past too early. We can clearly see the data.

 

I'm not trying to instill 'fear' in anybody... but I do advocate level-headed common sense and a balanced, if somewhat cautious, approach to virus(es) about which so little is known for SURE.

All the best to you....

 

Does this level headed common sense approach factor in the negative side effects of perpetuating fear...mask mandates social distancing and lock downs? You know? Things like loneliness, isolation... depression... suicide ... Divorce and seperation...abuse...crime spikes...job loss...inflation...supply chain issues...lack of normalcy...yadda yadda?

Stats are saying highly contagious...mild as ****.

It's good news. Start accepting that.

 

Merry Christmas!!

I found one data analysis that suggests boosters can help, some better than others.

 

Where should I start in an enumeration of my denials...? The possibilities are almost endless.

Well -- I don't support 'lock downs', I don't recommend "loneliness, isolation, depression, suicide, divorce, separation, abuse, crime, job loss, inflation, supply chain issues", or a lack of "normalcy" (whatever the hell that is believed to be now in this tragic, horrible, miserable, maladjusted, mentally-unstable, soul-destroying TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY).

Hell, I don't even advocate mandatory vaccinations! Let's just let each person make his/her own decisions, and let nature take its course. Ultimately, you'll live, or, you'll die... and, of course, you'll die eventually anyway....

For similar reasons surrounding personal freedom and personal responsibility, I don't recommend federal government 'rescue plans', 'bailouts', blowing off due-dates for rent, or payback of mortgages or ANY loans, either. And, there shouldn't be any handout welfare shoveled out to anybody simply because they had lived their lives for years oblivious to the NEED to SAVE money for the very real possibility of great, upsetting difficulties, job-loss, illness, or anything else that can (and often DOES) affect an individual person in his/her personal life! I am responsible for me... and every other person should be responsible for himself, too. THAT is the flip-side of "freedom"....

As a reply to a fellow poster named "ToughTalk", that ought to speak volumes!

 

So with all that you've just said...how is it so hard to recognize great news in the data when it smacks you in the face?

 

Thanks, the same to you and Happy New Year!

Jesus, I'm very tired. The first day back was a killer. Now I need vacations to rest from the first day back from my vacations. LOL.
This is the thing with medical care. It's all so intensive, and there is so much prep to do before taking vacation (arranging for coverage, singing off to your covering person with details about the most complicated cases, scheduling labs, letting your covering person know when to check them, and so on and so forth), and so much catching up after vacation (trying to get up to speed with what happened to your patients in your absence, taking care of something that may have escaped the covering person's efforts), that it's almost useless to take vacations, if one has to work twice as hard before and after.

Some people envy us because we're well paid. They don't know how many sacrifices we make.

So what was the question already? If you should get a booster if you had unpleasant 2nd dose reaction? Definitely. Of course! Get boosted! Regardless of the milder cases I'll mention below, remember, we don't really know how much organ damage Omicron will left behind even for those who have a mild case of it. Likely less bad than what Delta did, but not zero. This virus is best avoided, whenever possible.

Come on, unpleasant side effects? So what? A couple of days of unpleasant side effects beats getting the full virus any day (or getting it anyway, but with at least some protection).

I can tell you this, just out of memory (I hope I'm right, maybe what I'll say below has some areas of imprecision), without quoting links to papers (now I have time... but too tired to look them up)

Best protection against Omicron seems to be Moderna + Moderna + Moderna Booster
Second best, Pfizer + Pfizer + Moderna Booster
Third best, Pfizer + Pfizer + Pfizer Booster.

J&J, AstraZeneca, Sputnik V, CoronaVac, all pretty much useless against Omicron. If you had one of these, seek to boost with an mRNA vaccine, preferably Moderna, or if your country permits (like Germany) get two doses of an mRNA vaccine on top of your previous basic vaccination.

The bottom line is, the mRNA vaccines beat all the others for Omicron, and Moderna, among the two, is the best one.
So whoever had basic vaccination with Moderna should stick with a Moderna booster.
Whoever had basic vaccination with Pfizer should switch to a Moderna booster.
If for some reason unavailable or with some contra-indication (say, strong history of allergy to one of the components of the Moderna shot) then whoever got basic vaccination with Pfizer should get a Pfizer booster, which still works decently against Omicron.

Basic vaccination without a booster isn't performing well against Omicron (to prevent infection).

There is some indication that even with a booster (which does restore protection), the duration of that protection against Omicron might be limited to some 10 weeks.

Now, all of the above relates to protection against INFECTION - If your vaccination scheme was different or was the above but longer ago, you'll likely still get Omicron infection. This thing is so infectious, there's no containing this one. Almost everybody will get it.

As for severity, on the other hand, more and more evidence shows that Omicron has been mild among the vaccinated, and even milder among the vaccinated + boosted, provided that mRNA vaccines were involved.

Obviously cellular immunity and memory also play a role. People with these that are robust (depends on how competent their immune system is) after even just basic vaccination, will likely not avoid infection with Omicron but will have it mild.

Natural immunity (from having had Covid-19 before) seems to be very lousy for avoiding infection with Omicron, worse than the mRNA vaccines. But again, may codify for milder disease.

Some anecdotal evidence is indicating that virtually 100% of severe cases that end up in hospitals and ICUs are among the unvaccinated. This was not always the case for the more deadly Delta (which was putting some vaccinated people in ICUs although proportionally in smaller percentage of cases than the unvaccinated), but seems to really be the case for Omicron.

Here's one such anecdotal account, by Dr. Craig Spencer, ER doctor at New York Presbyterian / Columbia University Medical Center (whom I actually know in person; good guy).

He seems to have an answer for your question:

https://twitter.com/Craig_A_Spencer/status/1475325900766031874

 

Dear Dr. Center! Sorry you got slammed the first day after vacation... I do remember that well myself. It's as though 'they' pile things up with a mischievous zeal and then hide somewhere out of sight so they can snicker and laugh at what you're going through. Me? I always found that when I was mashed-flat, a sublingual B-12 did wonders -- but, you're the doctor! I also liked the amino acid combo of L-Arginine and L-Ornithine!

Question, please... you mention that for those of us who have had "Pfizer+Pfizer+Pfizer", our protection is only ranked at third-best, but, yes, that's much better than nothing. Now, looking ahead...

Israel is rolling out the "fourth-shot" as you know, but I can't find out who manufactures the vaccine and/or 'booster' for that fourth-shot the Israeli's have adopted. Do you know? And, for a person who has gone "all-in" with Pfizer up to this point, what would your view about the fourth-shot be? Here's what I'm reading now (it's short, I promise): https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus...ael-fourth-covid-vaccine-shot-omicron-variant

 

I think in Israel they are doing Pfizer.
Pfizer + Pfizer + Pfizer third best but still pretty good, but if you get a fourth shot, get Moderna.

 

That's tough to hear about your break. I'm in psychology and people don't realise how much paperwork - and how many checks and balances are in that field either. It sounds like you have even an additional layer of sidebranching bureaucracy to contend with!

Very detailed summation, thanks so much. I was initially surprised by reading some time ago that the Moderna provides marginally greater protection (at least in terms of hospitalization rates), but it seems to be consistently outperforming Pfizer by a shoulder or two. I will pass this on to my younger brother, partner and their friends in London who are toying with which booster to get.

That anecdotal account at the bottom seems to support the gist of vaccine efficacy very well. It makes complete sense and I just don't know why people don't understand the basic principles of how a vaccine works. (I.e. something is better than nothing and any small side effects pale in insignificance compared to the disease itself). I'm cautious saying this out loud, but to some of the older guys that grumble about how they felt a bit off after the vaccine, I can't help suggesting that if that's how they reacted to the vaccine, then imagine how their bodies might have reacted to the full blown disease unvaccinated. [I realise that a reaction to a vaccine doesn't necessarily guarantee a serious illness with the disease being vaccinated against].

 

I would love to be 'smacked in the face' by good news for a change, ToughTalk. As soon as this happens, I'll be sure to let you know....

Truly, I'm very much a 'live-and-let-live' kind of guy. I'm also pretty much a 'live-and-let-DIE' kind of person, too. If unvaxxed people are satisfied with their chances of not ending up in the hospital and/or succumbing to an unnaturally-early death, then more power to 'em!

"Uh, ya know, at least he, like, enjoyed his freedom...!"

 

Pollycy, your live-and-let-die attitude overlooks the facts that the unvaccinated put a much bigger burden upon the healthcare system, and are demonstrably more prone to transmitting the virus to others than the vaccinated (I can show you several papers proving the point). So it's not just a matter of personal freedoms. These people are hurting others. The guy with a heart attack whose family tried 56 different hospitals but found no ICU beds because they were all clogged up with unvaccinated Covid-19 patients until he died (true story), did not not ask for this. Doctors and nurses who caught the virus, and some died from massive viral loads they were exposed to, by trying to help the unvaccinated over and over, also didn't ask for this.

Freedom is lovely but it stops where the rights of your neighbor start. Nobody is free to trespass at will into a neighbor's property. Conservatives usually meet this with a shotgun. Similarly, nobody is free to clog up hospitals for everybody else who need us, and nobody is free to infect unsuspecting people that (some of them) then will die. There is something called Public Health. You don't want to go to a restaurant and be killed by salmonella because a carrier infected your food. You want this to be prevented, right? Similarly, you don't want to go to a restaurant and eat your food with a side of Covid because your waiter is unvaccinated.

More power to them? I'm shocked. Maybe if they only hurt themselves, but that's not the case, and it's even worse for activist anti-vaxxers who spread the most despicable lies, and convince naïve people to decline these free, safe, efficacious, and life-saving vaccines. Their lies and purposeful misinformation literally and truly kill people. So, no, don't say more power to them, please. The more power they have, the more people die.

 

I was being petulant and rash, Dr. Center. I was also being sarcastic, because of course you're right -- those who come down with the virus, whether vaxxed or un-vaxxed, will certainly go barging right into the nearest hospital with eyes all bugged-out, demanding to be treated! Regardless of HOW they were infected, they ARE a burden on a healthcare system that is already 'sagging at the seams'.

The thing that makes it so much worse is that it is now proven that it is the UNVACCINATED who make up most of those who are in the hospital with COVID today! Is there anyone out there who still disputes that now?

I wonder what the reaction would be if people were told they must sign an affidavit stating that they absolutely, positively refuse to be vaccinated against COVID, and that therefore if thereafter they contract the virus, they automatically also refuse to be provided healthcare to treat them for COVID in a hospital, or, to undergo medical care that can save their lives! How many of the proud anti-vaxxers might we suppose would sign document like that?!

. "Don't take me to a hospital -- I'm too busy enjoying my FREEDOM!"

 

I was told that a small study just released shows J&J booster offering strong protection against Omicron after all. I don't have a link and I haven't read the study. I'll try to find it later.

 

I found these about J&J and Omicron... it may be what you referred to:

https://www.reuters.com/business/he...zation-safrican-omicron-era-study-2021-12-30/
https://www.ft.com/content/12a31288-96f9-4cdf-9a68-113f54953f1d

 

Must be it, thanks.

 

Yes, fingers crossed for you.

Australia and New Zealand are interesting test beds for the impact of vaccines because so many folks have never even been exposed to covid before Omicron.

 

I wear a P100 respirator...


3M 6503QL with P100 filters

... and deal with possible contamination by having several. I set aside one I've used in a warm room and let it sit for a few days. If I go out, I take more than one.

They're cheap on Amazon--$20 for the 6503QL, filters separate. Much better than an N95.

Also vaxxed and boosted.