What Happens When We Stop Believing in God

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Kris P. Bacon, Jul 29, 2022.

  1. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    No, those were not my words nor where they a valid representation of my words. To put it your way I would have to say "in other words there is usually a case to be made regarding any belief that either pro or con is more reasonable and logical."
     
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Those who accept the existence of UFOs come from all walks, including Christianity. And, they usually do not see UFOs as supernatural.

    The general direction of atheism being a religion is just a dodge.

    Atheism provides none of what religion provides - no hope, no peace, no guidance, no community, no worship, no god. Read definitions of religion.

    These are central features of religion - not just decorations.

    Suggesting that atheism is a religion is just an insult to religion, a claim that all those things so fundamental to every religion are extraneous, when in fact they are central.
     
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  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Atheism is simply a rejection of theism as an answer.

    Theism is a proposition that leads to complex answers to myriad questions, whereas atheism is a name for rejecting that specific proposition without contributing any other such proposition.

    There are other propositions. The word "atheism" just doesn't address them.
     
  4. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    I'll take a crack at this one too.

    Religion is entirely based on belief and faith. Views on ESP and UFOs can be, and usually are, based on either direct experience or rational "common sense logic".
     
  5. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    I am an atheist. I lack a belief in a god. That is what makes me an atheist.

    And yet here you are stating that Atheism isn't a lack of belief, it's a belief there is no god.

    That is wrong.

     
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  6. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    The prefix a- in atheist simply means without. It is only an absence of theism. If it were meant to be a positive belief, the word would have been antitheist.

    If things like UFOs and ESP exist, they would not be supernatural. Certainly UFOs wouldn't - and even if ESP existed it could be just some previously unknown natural phenomenon. I suppose you're trying to say that atheists can have faith too. Faith should be seen as the opposite of skepticism. An extreme skeptic could never be convinced of anything, while a person of extreme faith could never be convinced otherwise of something they have faith in. Usually, somebody arrives at atheism because they have more skepticism. People do tend towards skepticism when it's something they dislike or would rather not be true, but many people arrive at atheism because of a high degree of general skepticism.

    Now the evidence for god is very much lacking. It doesn't take much skepticism. For UFO's, there's all kinds of things that have happened that are hard to explain, but certainly not proven to a highly skeptical mind. People who believe in religion would naturally tend towards more skepticism for UFOs because it conflicts with their religions narrative to some extent (sort of like evolution), even if they have less general skepticism. I think skepticism can be taken too far, but faith is a completely illogical way to try to determine reality.
     
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  7. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I said it's a supernatural alternate. It's something that's mysterious that allows you to fill in the blanks as to what may or not be ...something. Or nothing at all.

    As for atheism being a religion, I never said that. I simply said that atheists and theists both depend of faith with no evidence for their beliefs...and that's it. I wasn't making a larger point about religion. Sorry you read way to much into it.
     
  8. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    That's false. Atheism is an affirmative belief that there is no god.
     
  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    ESP and UFO's are based on "common sense logic?"

    Well then, I guess you don't need any evidence, just belief.
     
  10. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    How does that differ from an agnostic?
     
  11. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    It's still an affirmative belief without evidence. Why can't you admit you believe something?
     
  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    No, it is not an "alternate" as it isn't specific to any belief in God or atheism or any other such proposition.

    The notion of UFOs is a general population phenomenon.

    And as has been pointed out, those who accept the notion of UFOs do not see it as supernatural.
    Now you just switched from "belief" to "faith".

    Atheism is NOT a faith. Atheism is a rejection of the proposition that there is a god.

    Everybody thinks their opinion about the supernatural, etc., is correct. That doesn't make it a faith. This is an area where words like "belief" and "faith" get WAY over used, because their definitions are so broad.

    You can't turn a rejection of a proposition into a faith, a belief, a religion, or whatever your next try will include.

    In general, if you want to propose a solution like "there is a god", it would be good if you had evidence.

    But, I don't see that lack of evidence as being the only issue. The catch with the "god did it" theory is that it doesn't logically lead to what we see today.
     
  13. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    The notion of UFO's is mostly an Anglosphere/Northern Europe thing, it's not "general population.

    https://twitter.com/DannyDutch/status/1597493104214528000

    As for atheism, again you are trying to continue an argument I never made. I didn't say it's a religion, but if you, by definition, believe there is no god, than you have a belief. It's actually a much simpler point that you want it to be.
     
  14. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    It's called "direct experience" in the case of ESP, like you can directly experience a stove being hot but you cannot impart the experience to another by telling about it. In the case of UFOs you can apply "deductive reasoning" which gives you quite a bit more than belief based on faith.
     
  15. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    People have "direct experience" with all kinds of things, a burning bush, an angel, a devil, an alien, it's all the same.
     
  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You're still playing word games with "belief".

    If atheism were an affirmative belief, it would affect the way I lead my life in some detectable way.

    Like, "I am an atheist, s
    You tried to pretend that atheists are more prone to UFOlogy and thus believe in the supernatural!!!

    But, UFOlogy in America is not related to theism or atheism, and those who like UFOs do not see them as supernatural.

    Also, I rejected your notion that atheism forms a belief, a faith, or whatever other terms you want to conflate with theism.
     
  17. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    No, the UFO comment was strictly meant for you.

    I remember thinking of you as a rationalist of sorts even if I disagreed with your many of your posts, until I stumbled across your voluminous UFO posting on this forum. You are a true believer. So it's curious why you seem to find it more insulting to be labeled as someone who doesn't believe in a god, even though that's the case, then someone who believes in UFO's as aliens, which has about the same evidence of a god.

    So no, UFO's are not, strictly speaking, "supernatural," although they seem to hold the same position in the human psyche.

    As a student of human nature, it's curious.
     
  18. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    An agnostic says he doesn't know if there is a god. It's about knowledge
    An atheist says he doesn't believe there is a god. It's about belief.

    I, personally, am an agnostic atheist. I do not have knowledge about the existence of god and I do not believe there is a god.
     
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  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I've never supported the idea that there are UFOs anywhere near Earth.

    And, I'm fine with who I am.

    Somehow, you are confusing yourself.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
  20. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    It is simply not true that atheism is a positive belief there is no god, but there are some atheists who believe that. This does not describe me. I may have disbelief in the Christian god, but when it comes to gods in general, I simply lack belief for lack of evidence. Lacking belief is not a belief. It's more like suspending judgement. It's like believing in little green aliens. Maybe they exist somewhere in the universe. Maybe they don't. But until I see evidence of them, I do not believe in them. Agnostics are normally a type of atheist, though it's possible but far less common for somebody to be an agnostic theist as well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
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  21. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    There's far more evidence for UFOs than gods, though the evidence is still not on the level I would actually believe UFOs have visited Earth. I'd put that in the strong possibility but not proven category. While the existence of alien life (that has come nowhere near earth) is almost certain just based upon the nature of the universe and life. The evidence for souls is more compelling than the evidence for gods, but it's still less than the evidence for UFOs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
  22. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Our views are identical!
     
  23. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    No. Nice try. Those are not direct experiences. They are subjective impressions. So still in the domain of belief.
     
  24. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    OK well that was what I was saying. So we agree.
     
  25. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    OK well I don't feel confused, although that could be a symptom!

    signed- The Joker
     
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