Too broad a topic, perhaps, but I think it might be interesting to see people bounce some ideas around on their vision of positive outcomes for the future of this country, and the methods and means of achieving them. For example, our Legal and "Justice" System, that isn`t just. Law and Justice, should be practical and fair, should be accessible to all, it`s not. Perhaps people power could be brought to bear, to initiate revision. Bear in mind that this is one industry that has never been obligated to run efficiently or to achieve direct and correct results.
I think the first thing we need to do as a society, is stop the high court judges being appointed by politicians. This I believe, would stop the corruption filtering down into the lower courts, which is obiviously happening. With all due respect, what do you do, when the whole barrel of apples is rotten to the core? Whats the point of of taking the rotten apples out of the bottom, and leaving the rotten apples at the top - its all just going to start again. The corruption, deciet and lies plauging our society starts from the top with our politicians and Governments, and continues all the way to the bottom. The only way to eradicate the corruption is to start again with something completely new. Our legal system will never be fair and equitable so long as politicians hire high court judges, and those judges in turn hire other judges, magistrates and tribunal members. The whole system is set-up to give "them" justice, but not us, becuase as we know, they don't live and work under the same laws as we do. Thats why we have two corrupt legal systems in this country; one for politicians and their mates, and another for ordinary people.
I would agree with this except for one thing, who should appoint the high court judges? You never said. My answer would be that we elect a president instead of an appointed GG, whose only real power would be to appoint judges.
The entire system is unwieldy, and dysfunctional. Money talks. Just as religion, in the old days of the western world, and today`s Islamic world, our Justice / legal system has for centuries controlled the day to day lives of the population, with very little influence from the population. This is one industry that has grown with virtually no external influence from it`s clientele, the people that it rules. While the rest of us have had to keep up with the times, to continually improve our efficiency and quality of output, J&L has just been grinding along, living off us, detached from any real scrutiny. One example. Years ago we had were forced into a Supreme Court action. It our Solicitor over three years to get to the point where we were on the list. We had to engage a barrister ($ 5,000 a DAY). During pre trial conferences, it was immediately obvious, that the barrister hadn`t even read the brief, he was relying on using the Solicitor`s knowledge of the case to settle out of court. There was nothing we could do about it. This type of treatment is common. There are some very good lawyers out there, but they ALL operate under a system that effectively holds us to ransom by it`s own inefficiencies. Perhaps we could form an internet action group? Bring pressure to bear to force the J&L system into some form of accountability? Per
I like this idea of forming an internet community action group. Would not be short on people signing it, or making a comment about how dysfunctional the legal system is.
Maybe write an overview explaining to people how our legal system works and how its controlled from the top down to the bottom; followed by an introduction of how the system has become dysfunctional to the average citizen; ending with a summation on how the system could be changed to stop the dysfunction, and give true justice to everyone, not just politicians and the wealthy. Give everyone the opportunity to sign the community action group petition, and be able to comment on what they believe would make the better system for everyone. Also having the ability to delete idiot comments is a must, as we need to have credibility and facts to make something like this work. These are my thoughts.
Preamble We, the citizens of Australia, recognise the Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islander people as the original custodians of the land on which the Colony of New South Wales (now known and referred to as Australia, federated 1901) was established: That they:- have a unique status as the descendants of Australia’s first peoples; have a spiritual, social, cultural and economic relationship with their traditional lands and waters within Australia; and have made a unique and irreplaceable contribution to the identity and well-being of Australia. We recognise the injustices of our past, honour those who suffered for justice and freedom in our land and respect those who have worked to build and develop our country; We believe that Australia belongs to all who live in it, regardless of when or where they or their ancestor's came from, united in our diversity. Therefore, through our freely elected representatives, we adopt this Constitution as the supreme law of the Republic so as to:- Remove the divisions of the past and establish a society based on democratic values, social justice and fundamental human rights; Create the foundations for a democratic and open society in which government is based on the will of the people and every citizen is equally protected by law; and Enable Australia to take its rightful place as a sovereign state in the family of nations; .....................more to follow as I write it.
Mate, you are leaning yourself very far out of the window. If some on this forum would live close by, you might fall...... In the not to distant future, when the Libs finally censor the internet, you might be detected and jailed for your extreme thoughts. Myself as well, in regards to my comments of our PM. Actually not mine, as I haven't voted for this idiot. I like what you write, as it allows all people to live happily together and show respect for the ones, who lived here long before us. Cheerio
Unless the Aboriginal people are willing to allow samples of Mungo Man 1 & 2 for independent mtDNA testing, then I believe the first paragraph should not be included. Its not much point starting something new, if the beginning is based on scientific "if's" and "maybe's". This time, we need to start with the truth, not assumptions. I also don't think its a good idea to start such an important document advocating one culture and race of people are more important and special over the rest of the people - kind defeats the purpose of equality. Why are the Aboriginal people so hung-up on being recognised as the first humans to put their foot print on Australian soil? Does it really matter that much, or is there another agenda?
Mate, the day I can't lean out the window is the day I would jump from it. Yes I think it's fair and I think it ticks all the boxes. Some extremists from both sides will poo har it of course, that is to be expected. It something I have been pondering for some time, this is a draft of what I want to say, it does borrow words from various sources, changed a little. I didn't want to go into the history since settlement, rather to state some facts that are being bandied around. I didn't want to be scientific, not because I don't believe in science, after all I have devoted half my life to science, I didn't want to base it on conjecture either, just facts. It is an undeniable fact that Australia had inhabitants at the time of settlement of Australia. FACT It is an undeniable fact that successive governments have legislated racist acts into our previous constitution. It is an undeniable fact that businesses, land owners and the general public in the past have been supported by governments and legal systems to denigrate Aboriginal people. It is an undeniable fact that Aboriginal people have been disenfranchised and have until this point in time, have been treated less fairly and as inferiors. I didn't want to use words like invade, destroy, eliminate or other negativity, I want this to be a positive move forward, recognising the past without looking back. It is possible that Aboriginal people were not the original occupants of Australia, but it is known that they have been here for 10s of thousands of years, and at the time of European settlement, they did call this land home. Over the years I have been here I have read many different views on our governance and our rights. Time goes on and things always change, it has been over 100 years since we were federated, since then the world has changed dramatically for both the better and the worse, that is what happens. I look at this like I looked at things when I left home, I had grown older, it was time to grow up. It is time we as a country grew up, we need to reassess our values based on what we now know. We need as a fairly intelligent and benevolent peoples, to prepare the way for our children, grandchildren and future generations. It's time I believe. David
Is this the superficial terms on how we really want to create and start a new just & democratic legal system in Australia for everyone - scientific data hidden under the carpet of maybe's, if's, and assumptions? If the Aboriginal people were the first Australians, I personally don't have any problem recognising that, but I don't think glorigying one group of people for putting their foot print on a piece of dirt first over another group of people, is adding anything to equality of law, or to creating a new and just democratic legal system in Australia for everyone. I thought this debate was about making the law in Australia just and equal for every man, woman and child, regardless of their race, age, gender, and scoial standing. Since when did a debate on changing our legal system to make it just and fair for everyone, turn into a campaign for Aboriginal rights? Shock, horror! Everytime we try to discuss an issues that effects everyone in Australia, certain people always have to turn it into a crusade for "poor hard done by" Aboriginals, as if they are the only bloody people who can verbalise a "bad-luck" story. Maybe if Aboriginal people started talking to Australians more, they would suddenly realise Australians were not born with a "silver-spoon" in their mouths, and the majority have done it tough and also have a "hard-luck" story to tell.
CD, in regards to your last 2 responses, it appears that in your Australia Aborigines have no place, some what. As if you are uncomfortable with their existence. Why???? Regards
Aborigines need to concentrate on becoming functional in the modern age, to join with the broader community. If we are to respect each other as equals, there is no place for dreamtime prima donnas, or "superior Australians". We need to work together, not to have the divisiveness of any part of the community demanding special privileges based solely on race. - - - Updated - - - "in regards to your last 2 responses, it appears that in your Australia Aborigines have no place" HTF did you come up with THAT?
Kind of thought we were discussing the best way to start an online forum to address Australia's dysfunctional law.
What about include this also to be fair and equitable: Surely what's good for the goose is good for the gander too - is it not? We, the Aboriginal people of Australia, recognise the Australian people as the settlers of the land on which the Colony of New South Wales (now known and referred to as Australia, federated 1901) was established: That they:- have a unique status as the descendants of Australia’s settlers; have a spiritual, social, cultural and economic relationship with their traditional lands and waters within Australia; and have made a unique and irreplaceable contribution to the identity and well-being of Australia.
I thought we could use a thread to bounce any ideas around. What do you think about out over fed bureaucracy? The size of our bureaucracy is ridiculous, dragging us down.
I agree. Threads are an important way to bounce different ideas around, but is not introducing topics that has no relevance into a specific topic and debate, contaminating that topic and debate. Maybe someone could enlighten me how DV introducing the Aboriginal people as Australia's first people, is relevant in a debate about the dysfunctional and unjust nature of Australia's current law system?
Also the Local, State and Federal Government Departments that are suppose to help and protect citizens, when in fact these Departments do the direct opposite -they "ONLY" help and protect the companies and people the citizens complain about, and the citizens are left to fend for themselves.
