What led to the many downfalls of Germany?

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Lindis, May 22, 2023.

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What or who led to the many downfalls of Germany?

  1. first and foremost the German peoples themselves - because of their dis-unity

    1 vote(s)
    25.0%
  2. the War of the Thirty Years

    1 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. Louis XIV of France

    1 vote(s)
    25.0%
  4. Napoleon

    2 vote(s)
    50.0%
  5. incompetent German nobility

    2 vote(s)
    50.0%
  6. Bismarck - he was good for Prussia, but not good for Germany

    1 vote(s)
    25.0%
  7. the Treaty of Versailles, because it was no peace treaty

    3 vote(s)
    75.0%
  8. the Nazis - and their helpers

    1 vote(s)
    25.0%
  9. Stalin

    1 vote(s)
    25.0%
  10. still other things and events and persons

    3 vote(s)
    75.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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    OK then ...
    So before 1871 there were no Germans.
    None.

    There were only Bengali Hindustani. And Martin Luther was no German - he spoke Arabic.
    OK now ...

    :angel:
     
  2. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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  3. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Germany, in its many variations, hasn't been content since the 16th Century. It is just ingrained in their national psyche at this point. If you think they haven't figured out how to dominate their neighbors via the EU---the organization that was created to check them--- you will probably be shown as mistaken before it is over. I have no particular animus toward Germany or Germans, but I wouldn't get too complacent about them either if I were their neighbor.
     
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  4. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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    I think one can combine a monarchy with democracy - see the UK.
     
  5. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    True. But the monarchy of the UK has no power whatsoever. Its just for show.
     
  6. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    There was no Germany in 800 AD. As someone who lives in Germany, I find your threads, dear Lindis, rather silly.
    Today's Germany is 23 years old; talking about Germany and referring to the early Middle Ages is extremely inaccurate at best.
    If you really want to inform yourself on these things, I suggest you start with Gebhardt Handbuch der Deutschen Geschichte, or Hans-Ulrich Wehler's Deutsche Gesellschaftsgeschichte or maybe Neue Deutsche Geschichte Bd.1 & Bd.2 or Siedler Deutsche Geschichte.
     
  7. conservaliberal

    conservaliberal Well-Known Member

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    You're right, and in the Germany of a hundred years ago, Kaiser Wilhelm could have remained the monarch and interacted with the new Weimar Republic, probably in much the same way that Charles does with the British Parliament today. I've never understood the real reason why the Kaiser abdicated and went to live in Holland.
     
  8. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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    Aha.
    And what do you think where I live?
     
  9. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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    Aha.
    So in 1999 and earlier there was no Germany.
    Never ever.

    Good to know.
     
  10. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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    May I recommend you some books where you can learn counting?
     
  11. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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    Please read this:

    Nû alrêst lebe ich mir werde,
    sît mîn sündic ouge siht
    daz hêre lant und och die erde,
    dem man vil der êren giht.
    Mirst geschehen, des ich ie bat,
    ich bin komen an die stat,
    dâ got menschlîchen trat.

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palästinalied
     
  12. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    I specifically said "Today's Germany" which you, unfortunately ignored. I didn't say what you claim I said.
    Before the reunification, as you certainly know, it was West-Germany and East-Germany (not today's Germany); before that Nazi-Germany or the Third Reich (not today's Germany), before that the Weimar Republic during which it was still referred to as the German Empire (not today's Germany), and so on.

    Correct, it's called a typo and should have said 33 years (referring to today's Germany, once again: today's Germany)

    I know Walter von der Vogelweide. So, you want to go on a crusade (?).
     
  13. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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    Nonsense.
    I like Mittelhochdeutsch = Middle High German
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2023
  14. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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    3 say:


    the Treaty of Versailles, because it was no peace trea
     
  15. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    If the question is why Germany failed under the Third Reich, the answer is the belief in a totally wrong doctrine of life and politics, not dissimilar to the Soviet Union's failure.
     
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  16. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    You thought that question was meant to be taken seriously? And why should I read that? I have several close friends who teach German at upper secondary/college level; I'm halfway familiar with Mittelhochdeutsch. Thanks.
     
  17. conservaliberal

    conservaliberal Well-Known Member

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    People can speculate for hours about what really wrecked Germany. A realistic, pragmatic answer is probably found in the fact that Germany lost two world wars within 27 years! No other country in the world has ever suffered through two monumental defeats in a row like that in so short a period of time.
     
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  18. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We could argue that despite early successes and 40 years of empire, Germany got too ambitious, ending up losing in WW1.
    Then, under Hitler, and many early successes, Germany got too ambitious again, and entered a war they could not easily win. They were not expecting the war to drag on for so long, and already knew beforehand that if the war dragged on they would be more likely to lose. Germany had erroneously expected that Britain would not have the will to carry out a long conflict. Many in Britain were reluctant to be involved in the war. But Hitler misread history. Britain had always saw maintaining the balance of power in Europe as vital to their long-term national security and dominant position.
    The failure of the Germans to take Moscow was probably another even bigger factor. Like the French invasion of Napolean before him, Hitler underestimated the effect of the Russian winter. The Russians used scorched earth tactics to deny the Germans resources and shelter in Russia, at a great cost to their own population. The more ruthless the Germans were against their enemies, the more resolve their enemies had against them. The Russians knew things would likely be very bad for them under German occupation so had little to lose sacrificing millions of their lives. Similar in Britain, the bombing campaign the Germans believed would weaken British resolve only strengthened it, uniting the British people to view the Germans as an enemy.
    Germany's geographic position also played a role. In the center of Europe on a plain, with enemies on two sides.
    It is very difficult to quickly invade Russia due to the vast expanses and huge population (even though those people were extremely poorly equipped), and Germany needed to do it quickly to be able to move those forces to defend on the Western front, against an impending British-American invasion. Hitler may have wrongfully came to the conclusion, based on earlier experiences in other parts of Europe, that Russia could be defeated quickly.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2023

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