What the Messiah is Supposed to Do.

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Margot, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    End times according to the Torah... Jesus did not fulfill any of the prophesies.

    http://www.beingjewish.com/toshuv/real_messiah.html

    What the Messiah is Supposed to Do.
    One of the primary ways that we know that jesus was not the Messiah was simply because he did not fulfill any of the Messianic prophecies.

    Many people have written on this subject, both in books and online. This article will not add anything new to what they have written, but since so many people write me about this subject, evidently this article needs to be here at this site as well.

    The Prophets have written a great deal about what the Messiah will do when he comes. Likewise, the Oral Torah has much to say about this as well, of course. Numerous Rabbis or the post-Talmudic era have collected these teachings and written about them. I shall write some of what has been written by the Rabbis. I hope and plan to quote many of the verses from Tanach (Jewish Bible) in a separate article one of these days. (To write in detail all the Talmudic and Midrashic passages would be too much for me to do.)

    The Messiah will be a human being, the child of two human parents. He will be by unbroken patrilineal descent the undisputed heir of King David.

    The Messiah will be the unchallenged king of all Jews everywhere in the world. (When I say unchallenged, I mean that none of the Jews will challenge him, once it is understood who he is. There is little doubt in my mind that the Catholic Church -- and perhaps many Protestant Churches as well -- will challenge him, and call him the "antichrist." But they will soon realize their error, because they will have no power against the true and only Messiah.) He will be anointed with the special anointing oil that the Prophets used when appointing kings. The word "messiah" is Hebrew for "annointed."

    The King Messiah will reinstate the royal dynasty of David to its ancestral regal status. He will be king, and his son will be king after him. The King Messiah will live a very long life. When he dies, his son will become king. When his son dies, also after a long life, the grandson will be king after him. After the grandson's reign, this world will come to an end. The world will be dormant for one thousand years, and then the World to Come will begin and last for all eternity. We will be resurrected, which means that our souls will return to our bodies, and we will live forever on this, earth, which will also be renewed.

    The King Messiah will be very active in the Holy Temple. He will reinstate the Sanhedrin, our highest court, and they will reinstate the High Priest. Together, they will rebuild the Holy Temple. It is possible that the Messiah will not be anointed king until after the Holy Temple has been rebuilt, but in any case from the beginning he will lead all the Jews.

    Sacrifices will once again be brought at the Holy Temple.

    The Messiah will lead us in war to defend us when enemies of the Jews begin the War of Gog and Magog. The enemies of the Jews will attempt to destroy us, as they have been attempting to do for millennia, but they will not succeed. Nevertheless, great destruction will take place, unless everyone repents first. If everyone repents, the War of Gog and Magog will not take place.

    The King Messiah will gather the scattered Jews from all over the world. The lost Ten Tribes of Israel will be restored to the Kingdom of Israel, and the King Messiah will rule all twelve Tribes. He will also restore the family systems within each Tribe as they had originally functioned.

    The King Messiah and the Sanhedrin will restore the Sabbatical system and the Jubilee (which involve seven-year counts and a fifty-year count), as well as all other Commandments that we are unable to fulfill today. He will uphold and restore complete performance of the commandments and complete obedience to Hashem and His Torah. He will cause all Jews in the entire world to fulfill the Commandments of the Torah, and to uphold and strengthen the one and only true Judaism. Likewise, he will succeed in getting all the nations of the world, everyone alive, to acknowledge and serve the One True G-d, Hashem. This does not mean that they will convert and become Jews. It means that they will keep the Seven Laws that Hashem commanded the children of Noah.

    The Messiah will not cause any changes in the Commandments, nor will he add to them or subtract from them. He will certainly not start a new religion, nor will his followers start a new religion.

    The Messiah will regain the entire Land of Israel for the Jews, and the boundaries of the land will be as great as those promised to Abraham.

    The King Messiah will be extremely learned in Torah and absolutely observant of all the Commandments as taught and explained in the Oral and Written Torah.

    There will be utter peace in the world. After the King Messiah has been victorious, not a single nation will dare consider waging war, and no nation will rule over any other. People won't even study warfare or battle tactics anymore. And no one will have any reason to fear anyone else, ever again. There will be no racism or other forms of oppression, ever again.

    The nations will send their emissaries to the King Messiah, and the King Messiah will teach the world how to live in peace, and how to want to live in peace. Then, everyone in the world will enjoy eternal peace, for as long as this world will last. The great Rabbi, Rav Shlomoh Freifeld, of blessed memory, said in a talk he once gave that I attended that the Messiah will be a great teacher.

    Good things will be easily available to everyone. When the Messianic Era comes, there will be no poverty, no war, no hardships, no reason for jealousy or competition, and no boredom. Everything anyone needs will be easily and quickly available, so that good things will seem to grow on trees.

    Our primary concern will be in growing more and more spiritual, and we will all enjoy doing this.

    The Messiah will not need to perform any miracles to prove who he is. Nor would the miracles be very significant. The Messiah's purpose is to bring about the return of the Jews from exile, to restore our united practice of the Commandments of the Torah, to raise our conciousness to a high level of fear and love of Hashem, and to reinstate the Jewish kingdom in the Holy Land of Israel as Hashem originally established it under King David. Those are the Messiah's essential purposes. Even bringing peace and affluence to the world will be only so that the world will be able to peacefully pursue our purpose of serving Hashem through Torah study and prayer -- Jews as Jews, and Gentiles as Gentiles. Performing miracles is not particularly meaningful, since the Messiah will be an obviously righteous man, and the Torah commands us to obey the righteous.

    What I'm driving at here is that all the miracles in the universe do not make someone Messiah, if he is not righteous. jesus, who contradicted the Torah, could not have been the Messiah, no matter how many miracles they claim he performed. The real Messiah, when he comes, may or may not perform miracles, but he will certainly not contradict the Torah in any way, shape or form.

    The King Messiah may decide not to perform overt miracles, but he will nevertheless be immediately recognized as a man who can judge the inner essence and spirituality of people. His wisdom will be recognized by all, and many representatives of all the nations will also come to learn wisdom from him and get his advice.

    And no one in the universe will have any doubt that the Messiah has come, and we won't have to argue with people about whether or not the Messiah has come. There will no longer be any missionaries, and no one will be teaching anyone else about any other religions, except maybe as history.

    Everyone in the world will see the prophecies fulfilled, and there will be no doubts about any of it.

    In every generation, the potential exists for the Messiah to come. The Torah says, in speaking of the coming of the Messiah, "In its time I will bring it quickly" (Isaiah 60:21). The Talmud explains that there are two ways the Messiah can come. Hashem has established a final time, a deadline. If we repent, the Messiah will come quickly, before the deadline. If we do not repent, the Messiah will nevertheless come at the deadline (Sanhedrin 98a).

    If we merit it, the Redemption will come quickly, and we will see many open and overt miracles.

    If we do not merit the Redemption when the deadline comes, if we have not repented by then,it will happen in stages. It will take longer to happen, and there will be no or few open miracles. And there will be war first. Hashem will cause a king as evil as Haman to pass laws against us, and he will oppress us until we repent. And to destroy us, he will set into motion the war of Gog and Magog, which you may have heard of under the inexplicable name of "Armageddon."

    The great Chofetz Chayim, the leading Rabbi around a century ago, said that the war of Gog and Magog will take place in three stages. The first stage, he said, was World War One. He predicted that the second stage would be much worse, and he predicted the precise year of the beginning of World War Two.
    continued.......
     
  2. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    But if we repent, the Messiah can come even now, right this very minute.

    How is this possible? In each generation there is one (or more) righteous person who is worthy of being the Messiah, if the generation repents and the time is right for the Messiah to come. In every generation, since we have not all fully repented, the potential Messiah of each generation has lived his life, and passed away, as do all people, whether righteous or not, completely unaware that he would have been the Messiah.

    Some people think that the greatest person, the most righteous person of each generation is the potential Messiah of that generation. Often, they base it on the person's notoriety. This is an error. Maimonides teaches that the Messiah can even be an unknown righteous person, a quiet, private person that not too many people know about.

    We make the mistake of thinking that we always know who the most righteous person of every generation is. But this is an error. The most righteous person could live in secret, doing what he must do privately and quietly. And we simple people are in any case not capable of judging who is more righteous than who, because we can't read minds and we don't know what's in anyone's hearts.

    If we all repent, the potential Messiah of this generation will become the Messiah.

    Note that he is not yet the Messiah, and he was not born the Messiah. He was simply a very righteous person. He himself has no idea that he is the potential Messiah of that generation. Certainly, the people at large have no idea who the potential Messiah is.

    If we make ourselves ready for the Messiah, Hashem will make the potential Messiah of the generation into the actual Messiah. Hashem will send the Spirit of Messiah that He created before He created the universe, and the potential Messiah of the generation will thereupon become the actual Messiah. The Messiah will then proceed to fulfill all the Prophecies that he is destined to fulfill.

    Please understand something: Hashem loves and wants all of His children. He wants none to be left out when the Messiah comes. Hashem therefore wants all Jews to repent, and all of us brought into the Messianic Era. Just a few won't do, and even one left behind is too many. So we can't look at any particular group and expect their righteousness to bring the Messiah. Each and every one of us must work to improve ourselves.

    Jewish Law requires us to pray that the redemption and the Messiah come soon, and to eagerly anticipate it happening. We must, each day, continue to pray and continue to hope that the Messiah will come, even though he did not come yesterday, and he did not come this morning.

    For we know that the Messiah will come, because Hashem has promised that he will come. May it be Hashem's will that we all merit the coming of the Messiah immediately, very soon, and may he come quickly.
     
  3. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    wow....


    WOW a whole bunch of garbage in them few posts.


    rather than a single 'dude' or family ruling, it is quite the opposite; each will become capable as in 'can and able' (our brothers keeper)

    the rules will be changed as they will be based on life.

    Jesus himself pointed it out

    17 And as he is going forth into the way, one having run and having kneeled to him, was questioning him, `Good teacher, what may I do, that life age-during I may inherit?'

    18 And Jesus said to him, `Why me dost thou call good? no one [is] good except One -- God;

    19 the commands thou hast known: Thou mayest not commit adultery, Thou mayest do no murder, Thou mayest not steal, Thou mayest not bear false witness, Thou mayest not defraud, Honour thy father and mother.'
     
  4. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    Did i mention that the 'name of god' will be unveiled?
     
  5. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    I had no idea that this particular Jewish eschatology existed.. ..
     
  6. Mehmet

    Mehmet New Member

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    jews are waiting in vain.
    they've missed their messiah.
     
    RiseAgainst and (deleted member) like this.
  7. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    You don't know that.

    There are variations in Jewish, Muslim and Christian eschatology.......
     
  8. Mehmet

    Mehmet New Member

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    they can keep waiting.

    the problem is they are causing too much mess out of it.
    you do know that there are people who believe that "they can force 'G-d'
    for apocalypse", right?
     
  9. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    that is funny.

    Idiots claim jesus is christ, which goes directly against jesus' charge (matt 16:20 .), but then expect him to come back and finish the job.


    Is it possible, that when the per se 'return' comes, that that is the messiah that the jews are 'awaiting'?

    It is fricken hilarious to see how ignorant some of the religious wingnuts actually are.
     
  10. montra

    montra New Member

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    Whom the Jews put on the cross. So why did the Jews murder a righteous man Margot?
     
  11. montra

    montra New Member

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    Actually, in Daniel 9:24-27 we are given a calendar for the coming of the Messiah which points to Jesus. If it is not him, then the prophesy is wrong, making Daniel a false prophet.
     
  12. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    24`Seventy weeks are determined for thy people, and for thy holy city, to shut up the transgression, and to seal up sins, and to cover iniquity, and to bring in righteousness age-during, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the holy of holies.

    25And thou dost know, and dost consider wisely, from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem till Messiah the Leader [is] seven weeks, and sixty and two weeks: the broad place hath been built again, and the rampart, even in the distress of the times.

    26And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end [is] with a flood, and till the end [is] war, determined [are] desolations.

    27And he hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week, and [in] the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.'





    i dont see anywhere in there that jesus was messiah




    Heck, there has been more war, desolation and destruction since jesus came than ever before in all history.

    Jesus didnt destroy the ignorance upon the earth!


    can you point out where daniel said jesus was to die and then come back a couple thousands years later and finish the job?
     
  13. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    if he was 'that messiah' then why didnt he come back to the people who condemned him and tell them 'hey fools, you cant kill me'?

    why didnt he remove the lies from mankinds beliefs?

    why is there still no peace?


    you and i both know why. Because he was not messiah!
     
  14. montra

    montra New Member

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    http://www.preceptaustin.org/daniel_924-27.htm

    In the site above it discusse rabbi Leopold Cohn. In his daily ritual, he would alawys recite the phrase, "Though the Messiah tarries". He then began to question the phrase and was directed to writings in the Talmud regarding Daniel 9:24-27. There is no question according to the Talmud that Daniel 9:24-27 is a calendar for the coming Messiah and that it points to the time of Christ. Their reasoning was that since they rejected Jesus was that the Messiah tarries because of the sinfulness of Israel. He then questioned this further and to make a long story short led him to forsake his profession and everything he had and came to the US in the 1800's and start the movement known as the Jews for Christ.
     
  15. montra

    montra New Member

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    Isaiah 53. Read it, know it, believe it. :-D
     
  16. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    Why don't you look at when Daniel was written.. 2nd century BC

    Daniel may have been a legendary hero in Canaan even before the Hebrews arrived.

    The story of Aqhat in the Canaanite clay tablets from Ras Shamra (ancient Ugarit) in Syria, dating from the 15th century B.C., speaks of "the hero" Danel the Rephaite, who "judged the cause of the widow and tried the case of the orphan."
     
  17. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    nothing about jesus


    still aint jesus

    rejecting jesus, still dont make him messiah

    christ is the per se messiah

    still aint jesus!
     
  18. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    what does that have to do with jesus?
     
  19. montra

    montra New Member

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    Isaiah 53
    Who has believed our report? And to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? For he will grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground; he has no form nor comeliness, and when we will see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquinted with grief; and we hid as it were our faces from him, he was despised and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows, yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before the sheerers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgement; and who will declare his generation? For he was cut off out of the land of the living; for the transgressions of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence; neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he has put him to grief; when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he will see his seed, he will prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He will see the travail of his soul, and will be satisfied, by his knowledge will my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he will divide the spoil with the strong, because he has poured out his soul unto death, and he was numbered with the transgressors and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


    So if this man is not Jesus, then who is it? Who is this righteous man who was bruised for our iniquities and cut off from the land of the living? Who is this man who had no guile in his mouth and whom the Lord took pleasure to bruise him? Who is this righeous man who died for our sins?

    You have a few options the way I see it. You can say that the NT was made up to mirror such prophesies, or you can say that Christ read them and tried to create such scenerios to mirror his life.

    Of course, there is a more troubling question. Why would the Lord want to harm a righteous man? For the story of Jesus, it is obvious as to why, it was to save us all. However, if this was not the case, then does the Lord enjoy causing people pain?
     
  20. AshenLady

    AshenLady New Member Past Donor

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    All of a sudden Margot is a rabbinic scholar.

    Let the rabbinic scholars talk for themselves, if you wish...Margot you are just a racist and are trying to create a climate of anti-semitism.

    Jesus died for somebodies sins, but NOT MINE.:mrgreen:
     
  21. montra

    montra New Member

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    So you conceed that Daniel 9:24-27 is a calendar for the coming of the Messiah and that this points to the time when Jesus walked the earth?
     
  22. montra

    montra New Member

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    I assume you are Jewish. Just a guess. :)

    I will then ask you. What have you been taught regarding Isaiah 53? Who is the person in question? Also, what have you been taught about Daniel 9:24-27 if anything?

    FYI: I don't ask to be argumentative. I'm sure they have theological answers. I just would like to know what those are even though I am pretty sure I will not agree.
     
  23. Mehmet

    Mehmet New Member

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    i am not quoting the bible.
    you are.

    ignorance is relative.
    keep your 'relativity' to yourself.
     
  24. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    most every contributer to knowledge was persecuted. See bacon, galileo, darwin, etc....
    uhhhhhh ..... ghandi, martin luther king............... millions of jews in ww2...............

    Osama bin laden??

    Lots of people have died for others.

    But not for YOUR SINS.. If that was the case, then when you LIE, you are dishonoring 'all of them'



    that is kind of sick to read..............

    ie...... 'x' has pleasure to harm (bruise) another life???????????????

    no one died for YOUR lying.

    how about many, die because of lies

    i dont see jesus as trying to fit what was said

    how about he knew>>>>

    15`If ye love me, my commands keep,

    16and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you -- to the age;

    17the Spirit of truth, whom the world is not able to receive, because it doth not behold him, nor know him, and ye know him, because he doth remain with you, and shall be in you.



    29`And now I have said [it] to you before it come to pass, that when it may come to pass, ye may believe;

    30I will no more talk much with you, for the ruler of this world doth come, and in me he hath nothing;


    he knew he was not that 'him'
    nature is tough

    he said follow the rules

    and no false witness is a rule you continue to break

    you posted it

    Who is this man who had no guile in his mouth and whom the Lord took pleasure to bruise him?
     
  25. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    no i dont

    I have read it

    and i can see how the interpretation could be as a 'timeline'

    but that has nothing to do with jesus.

    If the claims that you have of what 'messiah is supposed to do' based on a dude dying for people is what makes him special or that a 'timeline' is what you find as important, then you are missing the whole scope of what 'good' a life would be doing for mankind
     

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