What would happen if I come injured and unconscious at a hospital without insurance?

Anywhere they accept Medicare. Which is pretty much everywhere.

 

There are many areas of the US where almost all the private hospitals do not even have emergency rooms and the few that do will not allow ambulances to come to their doors unless the patient is insured. It is a myth that all emergency patients will be treated regardless of their insurance.

 

You will get the same exact level of care as if you were the world's richest person with the world's best insurance. It is silly to think that ER doctors, who are salaried hospital employees, would look at someone's insurance (or lack thereof) before treating them.

 

Yes a private for profit hospital E.R. cannot turn a patient away. They must admit them and stabilize them. Regardless if they have insurance or the ability to pay for their care. That is the law. And, it includes illegals and non-us citizens.

 

specialists called in to treat E.R. Patients are often not paid one cent when treating an emergency patient without insurance and no means of paying for their care. They can't write it off because it is a service and the federal government and State doesn't pay them for the care they provide.

 

I asked about hospital not emergency room. What percentage of private for profit hospitals actually have emergency rooms.

 

That Is why they admit you to the hospital before calling the specialist.

 

Meant to say Specialist are often not paid one cent when treating an e.r. patient without insurance or no means of paying for their care. And, if the E.R. Physician can't treat the patient or determines a specialist is needed they will call the specialist that is "on call", often before admitting the patient.

So what is your point?

 

Yes they legally cannot refuse to admit you. The exception "may be", if your injury isn't life threatening, they then may transfer you to Government/state funded hospital, I suggest you read this information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act It fully explains the law that requires all hospitals with staffed E.R. must treat emergency patients regardless of ability to pay.

And, the member that posted you will still be charged is correct where it wasn't emergency care. But, you would be advised upfront if you would be billed. But still, as I have said repeatedly, 99% of hospitals and doctors that treated you are willing to work out a payment plan based on your income and ability to pay for your treatment. Whether that be only $1.00/month.

 

I didn't ask if emergency rooms in for profit hospitals have to admit everyone. I asked if the hospitals have to admit everyone regardless of ability to pay.

And the fact that hospitals will work out payment plans doesn't negate the fact that they will charge the uninsured four to five times what they will charge insurance companies.

And if you want to actually test your off the cuff claim that 99% of hospitals will work out a payment plan suggest you try going to the Mayo Clinic and telling them you have no insurance and can't prepay.

 

I would and have done so. I managed to get home after a motorcycle accident with a broken knee cap. My wife and a friend managed to strip my leathers off me (they'd cut them off in a hospital), call an ambulance and I was at my local hospital emergency within 20 minutes.

Treated then sent home (my wife drove me) all within 90 minutes. Handed over my Medicare card and no money changed hands except for a deposit for crutches and a Zimmer splint. Went home with the crutches, a Zimmer splint and a box of strong pain killers. Oh yeah, the doctor even wrote me a certificate I was incapacitated and unable to attend work.

 

Specialist don't treat ER patients. They are admitted to the hospital first.

 

Well I don't personally know of any private hospital that doesn't have an E.R. And, I didn't say that a non-emergency admission is treated the same as an emergency admission. Where your condition is not determined to be an emergency, it is far different that an emergency admission. If you are not an emergency and don't have insurance and aren't able to pay upfront, you are likely to be denied admission. In this case, you may be eligible for Medicaid coverage and should apply for it or seek treatment at a State funded Hospital or Clinic.

 

And, the norm is that Physicians and Hospitals and Clinics will charge less when treating patients with no insurance or who are out of network, not more. On that fact, you are very wrong.

 

Less than what? Less than the imaginary rate they charge on paper which no insurance company actually pays, maybe. Less than what an insurance company pays for the same procedure, not a snowballs chance. Physicians and hospital way overcharge the uninsured and that is the truth. And I can if you need it provide endless documentation or you could actually do some research or you could just go to whoever does your husbands billing and then actually learn something that might improve your actual knowledge of how the medicine works in the US. Or you can just keep posting untruths if it makes you feel better.

Here is just one article for you

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...f5118c-0aeb-11e5-9e39-0db921c47b93_story.html

 

First of all, it isn't an imaginary rate, it is the rate that they as a sole-proprietor/business charge for their services, regardless of what an insurance company wants to pay.
Who determines what a lawyer can charge you hourly or per case? No one. Or what an accountant, plumber, electrician, home builder, dentist, veterinarian can charge you? No one. Competition wise, if you don't like what one Doctor or Hospital or Emergency room charges, find another one, its simple to do. Before PPO's, HMO's and managed care, all of which I urged my Husband and other doctors not to sign up for; we were paid by insurance based on "usual and customary charges", customary charges billed by other physicians in the area. Since the mid 90's physician and hospital reimbursements for the exact services provided prior to that have decreased 90%. So you are not correct. Can't blame you because most people know nothing about how this entire health care system works. But I can tell you that most physicians, clinics and hospitals are barely hanging on. And most sole-proprietors don't earn enough to pay business overhead and are staying in practice solely through money earned by other investments. That can't last much longer. And, that is what Obama and the Democrats knew would happen and what they "banked" on to force Universal Health Care.

It is difficult for you non-informed, non-health care worker people to debate those of us with many many years of experience in this field. What makes me mad is that you refuse to even consider that what we say is true.

 

Oh, and regarding charging those without insurance less. You are so wrong when you say we charge more. That actually makes no sense at all. When a patient has no insurance, the first thing physicians and hospitals do is go over the cost of their services, then with the patients imput, they determine what the patient can afford monthly to pay towards their charges. They work out a payment plan acceptable to the patients, or the patient can decide they can't afford the care/treatment.
No physician and the hospital they are on staff with wants to turn away a patient needing care.

It is only when a patient agrees to a set monthly payment and then doesn't pay it that they "may" be turned over to collection. However, most sole-proprietor physicians simply report their non-payment to a credit bureau.

So, don't agree to a monthly payment you don't intend to make.

And, were insurance isn't involved we can afford to charge 25% less. And most of us will quote the patient a fee 25% less than what we would submit to insurance because of the additional administrative costs when dealing with insurance.

 

You are confused between what is billed and what is paid. Just look at any Medicare statement. And you never provide any documentation for any of your opinions just expect us to respect you credentials which you refuse to post.

We are sorry you husband is so unsuccessful in his practice but that doesn't mean his experience is representative of the entire profession.

 

I didn't say you charged the uninsured more. Try to pay attention. Reputable hospitals and doctors charge everyone the same. The problem is the insurance companies pay much less than they are billed while the uninsured don't have the leverage to get the same leeway.

And yes many physicians and hospitals will negotiate the bill down or arrange a payment schedule, with interest, but the amount paid by the uninsured will never be as low as what he insurance company pays.

Of course if you want to keep discussing just go ahead and make a flat, unqualified statement that the insurance companies pay the actual amount a hospital or physician bills. And if insurance wasn't involved then you should charge 25% less than the insurance company actually pays not what you bill the insurance companies. Understand the difference?

 

I find this entire thread orally bankrupt. The thought that a person may not receive medical treatment for lack of cash is utterly morally bankrupt.

 

This is what you said above, "Physicians and hospital way overcharge the uninsured and that is the truth". And, my husband has been very successful for over 35 years, he is just being paid less by medicare and Medicaid and now the private insurance companies are following suit. And, regardless of what they pay doctors and hospitals, doctors and hospitals will continue to charge the appropriate fee. That is their right. And what you say is so far from being true that it proves you know nothing about how the health care business works or how health insurance has changed over the last several decades. Don't even try to debate me on this subject because you will lose. you said "if you want to keep discussing just go ahead and make a flat, unqualified statement that the insurance companies pay the actual amount a hospital or physician bills". Never said that, so stop making things up.

The insurance companies pay these days based on a fee schedule or contract, most paying 80% of that amount, leaving the patient to pay the remaining 20% plus deductible amount not yet met. Providers are basically forced to sign-up to be providers on each policy these companies offer and forced to accept payment based on their fee schedules. Most of the Companies we deal with offered us the ability to sign-on to their "exchange" policies, many of them telling us up front that we would be paid less than Medicare rates for our services, so we and many others including Hospitals didn't sign-up and don't accept those insurance policies. That doesn't mean we aren't providers for their other policies.

You said, "And yes many physicians and hospitals will negotiate the bill down or arrange a payment schedule, with interest, but the amount paid by the uninsured will never be as low as what he insurance company pays." I don't know of any doctor that charges interest, or for that matter any hospital(I have never been charged interest on the amount I owed a hospital. And, the uninsured do often pay less as the insurance company only pays 80-90% of what they approve for payment. If we have an uninsured patient that needs surgery, we charge them what the average insurance plan would approve for payment so they save 20%. i.e. insurance company average approved payment for the surgery is $900.00, the insurance company pays 80% of that amount and the patient normally would owe the other 20%. We only charge the patient $720.00. And require 50% prior to surgery.

 

I give up. Your ability to make up things exceeds my willingness to post sources and facts.

 

I am not so sure how a $40 charge for a 10 cent toothbrush or a $80 charge for a 50 cent suture can be considered appropriate fees. Many hospitals have even more ridiculous charges.

The big problem is that providing health care in the US has never been an actual economic market subject to market forces. This created an economic model predicated on ever increasing pricing to fuel wild expansion regardless of the medical need or economic wherewithal. In many areas of the US the health care industry is vastly over invested in hugely expensive, barely utilized facilities that do not generate enough new revenue to pay for themselves and never will. The number of MRIs, PET scanners and other hugely expensive technology just cannot be justified by demand or their ability to pay for themselves.

Health care providers don't care about that, they just raise their prices because they know that the economy has no choice but to bear it. This has created areas of the US where the utilization rates for MRI machines is in the single digits, whole specially built wings of hospitals sit unoccupied, and everyone who needs health care is paying for these idiotic expenditures.

Well, the rest of the economy has reached the limit of how much it is willing to bear from this and is pushing the US health care industry into the economic marketplace just like the rest of the economy. The health care industry is in for a rude shock. It will be forced, for the first time ever, to think about its costs and expenditures as pricing becomes public and providers start to compete for price conscious customers, who, even though they have insurance also have high deductibles and co-pays.

 

Sorry, ask me some hard questions and I will answer them. You are the one that makes things up. You make a statement then deny making it. I too am tired of responding to your inaccurate comments.

I hope other members check facts and don't just believe everything you and I say. And, if they find information in the PPACA that contradicts what I have posted about the PPACA I want them to post it.

 

Well you said under the ACA people can be charged more for preexisting conditions. Then to support your statement you claimed that smoking was a preexisting condition. Indicates at the very minimum you haven't even bothered to read the bill.