When a woman spreads her legs she signs an unwritten contract...

Human life is important to us, especially I believe to theists who see point in life. If you are not a theist then I cannot explain to you why theists see life as important. We seek to do the will of God which is an important task. Almost everyone tries to keep their life, not very many people kill themselves or give their life over for something trivial. We try to stay alive, because most people realise life is important.

 

Anders this was Sangers goal…that perfect race…which did not include blacks. She wanted them segregated…put in camps. Gee what philosophy or worldview does that sound like? Hitler.

 

A "second trimester" abortion is NOT a "Late term abortion"

Late term Abortion refers to an abortion performed after the 20th week

This study was of SECOND TRIMESTER abortions and the maternal health problems were not included and you misquoted the study findings!!!!
http://www.deepdyve.com/lp/elsevier...-abortion-an-evidence-based-review-xG104Vg8As

 

FYI churchmouse, most white people wanted blacks segregated from them during that era. That was the common thought amongst the whites of the time and it was put into effect in schools, the workplace, they had separate drinking fountains, bathrooms, etc.

Can you blame a person who was born into a bigoted era and who was raised to be racist? But Sanger is dead now and what she once said or did is totally moot.

Since you seem to care so much about what a dead woman thought though, I'll let you in on a little secret, Sanger was anti-abortion!

 

I agree that this is a much better question ! For sure at 12 weeks the fetus has many more human qualities than at conception.

In order to claim that a living human exists at 12 weeks we need to first define what constitutes a living human from a biological standpoint.
What is also important is to look at what is valued in living humans such that protection is warrented.

Obviously there are different benchmarks one can use.

For me a critical line is sentience "the having of significant brain function" .

My reasons for this are that I find hard to classify something a living human when it is classified as clinically dead (not having significant brain function).

This is also an important line from a "what do we value" standpoint. There is little value in "life" in of itself from a human perspective. People under extreme torture will beg for death.

One can ask the question .. what do you value about your humanity/what makes life worth living. Many answers can be given "love, friendship, pleasure, passion,
money/material possesions and so forth.

The fetus at 12 weeks has none of this. It has no experience, it has no thoughts, no ability to sense pleasure or pain, .. nothing. A fetus at 12 weeks has nothing of the things we value about humanity.

Humanity does not value life, in of itself. In fact we need to kill life to survive. It is the quality of life of our species. We can say that we also are againt unnecessary cruelty to animals but this is because we do not like to see other advanced life forms suffer.

The fetus is neither advanced nor can it suffer. (Advanced meaning that it is capable of certain mental capacity and is aware of pain to begin with)

My discussion here is by no means comprehensive, but it does give some justification for why I think significant brain function is a good bar.

I would certainly entertain an earlier date if there were valid justification. (It looks like a living human does not cut .. and I would argue that it looks more like a dead human than a living one in any case)

It does not walk .. make noises, respond to stimulus in any meaningfull way, think, or any number of things one would associate with a living human.

 

Why?

What is the point in life that they see?

Why not?

Why?

No, not everyone - not a fetus.

Sure, but that's beside the point.

No, they try to stay alive because they like being alive - that doesnt make life important, just important to them.

 

A baby that has already been born does not try to stay alive either. What is the point in life? Why should murderers be punished?

 

I really hate the "she's signing a contract" argument. It's so pointless and stupid. A woman is not signing anything when she engages in sex, just like a man is not signing anything when he engages in sex. Both people are just having sex, period. There is no signing of contracts happening.

 

Good, then you support scraping child support payment laws? After all, just because a man had sex does not mean he should have to deal with any consequences.

 

I DO ACTUALLY! I am so glad you brought it up! A man should have a right to sign off all rights to a child he does not want if the women does not want to abort!

If a woman can give her child up for adoption without notifying the father he should at least have the right to sign away his rights to child as well, essentially he is in his own way giving it up for adoption. I don't believe anyone should be forced into parenthood, men or women.

 

Actually they do and they have a whole host of active instincts and protective mechanisms that ensure that - up to and including a "distress cry". Ever heard that in a crowded area? Ever counted how many, particularly women, turn to try and find where the cry is coming from?

 

Conversely just because SHE has sex does not mean she should have to deal with any consequences