Which WW2 battle was more instrumental in defeating Germany?

Actually the Allied bombing campaign did practically nothing to hinder Germany's ability to produce war goods. German production was at its height at the height of the Allied bombing campaign.

Factory equipment back then was just too hard to destroy from the air.

 

I will differ with you on that. Germany was on the threshold of developing many superior weapons at the end of the war. Had they held on for just a bit longer, the outcome may have been quite different.

My father was a crewman on B-17's in '44 and '45. His plane was actually shot shot down by a ME-262. He has told me that the Germans only had enough fuel to make quick runs at the bombers before they had to land. The Germans floated their fighters around the country, positioning them close to likely targets, to minimize fuel use. This was due to Allied bombing of their fuel depots and also those bomb runs were on industrial complexes. My father was shot down on a bomb run on a tank factory. He spent the rest of the war as a POW, but the mission was a success.

 

No offense, but your father could not have known that about the Germans. Did he have a direct line to Goering?

 

He knew that just by being there and seeing the behavior of the German planes. BTW, those air crews were briefed about conditions. Also, if you do a little research, you will find it quite true that the Germans did, in fact, deploy their planes near likely industrial targets. The Luftwaffe was acting as traveling barnstormers at the end of the war.

And, as to what my father knew, he met the pilot that shot him down and had a conversation with him. He was a decorated Major in the Luftwaffe and an ace with 208 kills and also was the commander of that fighter group. I can give you his name if you like.

No offense taken. This subject of this thread is debatable, but I stand by my earlier post for the reasons given.

 

Why wouldn't they defend the targets the Allies were bombing?

There were studies done postwar that said that the Allies would have been better off bombing other targets rather than factories.

The usual factory equipment back then was a lathe weighing many tonnes. Even a bomb dropping near it wouldn't destroy it. Factories were usually back up and running as soon as they could sweep the mess up.

 

You have to figure that there were daily bomb runs and many targets were hit multiple times. They eventually achieved the desired result. RR yards were a primary target, too. Bombing airfields wouldn't have been very effective at that time due to the mobility of the Luftwaffe. They really could set up almost anywhere.

May I ask why you have the screen name you have chosen? Just curious...I have no animosity towards the German soldier, sailor or airman. They made up one of the best fighting forces ever fielded and were doing what they were told...same as the Allied troops were. I actually have come to have tremendous respect for the Luftwaffe from my researching things about my father's experience.

 

I like German WW2 tanks.

Plus you have to remember that Australian troops came back from the war with nothing but the utmost respect for the Germans which translate into Australia's postwar view of them, even though Hollywood has been changing that.

Australian soldiers (as in the army), except for a little bit in Greece, only came up against the Germans in the War without Hate (North Africa).

 

Good enough!!

I never heard the term 'War without Hate' before. As I mentioned earlier, my Dad met the man that shot his plane down. Though he was the only survivor, he had no hate. There was just a mutual understanding of each other's position.

It's really amazing to read through the list of top WW2 German aces. Having over 100 kills was not uncommon. When I was young, I had heard of the Red Baron and somehow thought he was the top ace. He was, but for only WW1, with 80 kills. A German ace in WW2, Erich Hartmann, had 352 kills. WOW!!...just think....really amazing.

My Dad had heard of the 'rocket planes' but his first encounter with a ME-262 was the day he was shot down. They simply weren't able to get a bead on them due to their speed. I think that freaked him out as much as being shot out of the sky.

 

Germany is the only country to have aces with 100+ kills. The Bf109 shot down more aircraft than any other fighter plane in history.

Talking about the War without Hate, I remember reading of an account of 2 Australian soldiers during the Siege of Tobruk. It was after a battle in which the German dead littered the ground. One of the soldiers said to the other, "You know what? I don't even hate them." The other replied, "No one said you had to hate them, just kill them."

You sure you're not thinking of the Me163? That was a rocket plane.

 

Nope. Positive it was a 262. At that time, terminology for these planes wasn't exact. The 262 was a jet fighter, but to those boys on the B-17s it was a 'rocket plane'. Understand that it was to them much like a UFO streaking across the sky. They had never seen anything like it before and were very unprepared for them.

 

wrong interpretation, the German war economy was working well under capacity it had room to grow...production going up does not indicate that bombing didn't do serious damage, production would've been even greater had there been no bombing...

 

if Britain was defeated in BoB then there is no bombing at all, you need to look at the earlist moment where a defeat or victory would have a decisive outcome and altered all events afterwards... BoB was that moment...

 

If Britain had lost the BoB the war may have ended earlier. Germany would have been destroyed trying a cross channel invasion.

 

But they were producing and producing more than ever. Anything else is just opinion.

 

and would have produced far more if not for bombing and that's not an opinion but a fact...and here is a long list of German Generals and Field Marshalls who confirm that...http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ww2/nazis/nazidbrf.htm

 

It reads like, "We want to pretend that the USSR doesn't even exist."

 

Hate to break it to all the history revisionist on this thread, but the Soviets didn't win the war all by themselves.

That being said, Stalingrad was the beginning of the end of the European theater of World War Two.

 

No one is saying that the USSR won it by themselves, but there does seem to be a large US demographic who thinks that "DDay" won the war and war a soley US venture.

 

You may be right about what most people think. Most people don't know much more than what's in the headlines anyway and D-Day is the most recognized event of WW2, along with Pearl Harbor and the A-bomb, to most Americans.

The Normandy invasion wouldn't have been attempted had it not been for air superiority. The ground forces could not have made the eastward push without the air war crippling Germany.

The Battle of Britain was a turning point, but the war was far from won with that battle. There were many turning points, and it's good to recognize them and to honor the men that fought these battles.

Good discussion...it's infinitely debatable but not something I would want to 'argue' over.

 

amricans are not "most" people...

the Battle of Britain was the turning point, if Germany wins the BoB the logistics required for victory swing heavily in Germany's favour for total victory...

that's how learn from studying past mistakes of our own and of others....

 

then you're reading into it something that wasn't there...those were expert remarks of participants who knew more about the effects of bombing then anyone else...obviously bombing also had an effect on German response to Russian front as well...arguably the most significant damage was that done to Germans air power, without fuel Russians were unchallenged for air superiority...

 

???...had Britain lost the BoB it was powerless to prevent the German invasion, the Royal Navy was virtually defenceless without air cover....

 

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Ireland was neutral and Germany would have invaded to remove it as a potential invasion point, neutrality was only respected if it was to Germany's advantage to do so...German plans to invade the Azores and other Atlantic islands were also discussed for the same reason but shelved as it was impossible to resupply the garrisons as long as Britain controlled the Atlantic...

 

I think the war insides Hitlers head was the most instrumental in defeating the Nazi's.