White farmers face surge of violence in South Africa

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Pollycy, May 22, 2018.

  1. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    What 'injustices' are those? The Arabs, Indians, and later, the Europeans came in. The area now known as South Africa was lightly populated, mostly by tribes who wandered around, from place to place, making war on each other, taking each other's tribes as slaves, and living at a level of civilization where there was nothing but "slash-and-burn" agriculture (at best), and where most people ate whatever they managed to kill a day or two before.

    How does the confiscation of a vastly more modern and sophisticated civilization, brought mostly by White Europeans, and which exists throughout South Africa today, represent any kind of "fair compensation"...? Face it -- what Blacks had before the other people came into South Africa was the STONE AGE. Would South African Blacks be better off today if the Arabs, Indians, and Europeans had never come there...?

    [​IMG]. Nope... no European technology here! Ya want THAT?!
     
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  2. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Them Europeans didn't bring anything for the indigenous population. The black population was violently oppressed into slavery and poverty, mostly by thieving all the land they made their living on. If you look at a country like Ghana or Mozambique, and look up when their universities were build.. you would see about all of them were build after colonialism ended.

    But if you go like, might makes right, than you also got no grounds to complain when other people now got the might in SA.
     
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  3. Russell Hellein

    Russell Hellein Well-Known Member

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    How is this different than how the ancestors of these white farmers treated the backs who owned the land in 1850?

    I object to the use of violence to seize lands from blacks or whites. What I find objectionable is those who bothered when it happens to whites, but not blacks.
     
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  4. straight ahead

    straight ahead Well-Known Member

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    Look at every black majority country in the world. It makes no difference whether there are whites there or not. Violence is rampant.
     
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  5. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    I found it very bothersome in 1850.
     
  6. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    You have failed to establish either of those erroneous assumptions.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
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  7. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Of course I can!

    Here is Minister Cronin on video saying what was factually reported in Huffpo.

    https://www.news24.com/Video/SouthA...-rights-jeremy-cronin-on-land-reform-20180329

    Thanks for proving me correct about your failure to do any research on this topic.
     
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  8. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Onus still remains on YOU to PROVE that there is some imaginary "white farmer genocide".
     
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  9. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/huffington-post/

    Factual reporting beats conspiracy theories when it comes to source credibility.
     
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  10. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    YOU are the one making the FALLACIOUS allegation so the ONUS is entirely on YOU to PROVE it.
     
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  11. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for trying to establish a basis for reason and sanity on this topic. I became interested in it when it popped up on the Australia forum a while back so I began researching it for myself. I have traveled and worked overseas and from that I have learned is that what is reported by our US media is often way off the mark when it comes to what is actually happening in other parts of the world. The media here sensationalizes the news in order to sell advertising rather than ensuring that it is 100% factual. Yes, this does apply to all media that is funded by advertising. You need to look at sources like NPR and the BBC to actually find the facts and, in instances like this, look at the local reporting.

    And so that is what I have done. What I found was politicians behaving like politicians do all over the world. Saying stupid crap in order to pander to their base and hide their own corrupt intentions. That is no different to what we see happening here in America and there is no reason to believe it should be any different over there.

    In summary the end of the odious apartheid resulted in a new South African Constitution that protects property rights while at the same time ensuring that there was some form to land reform to redress the crimes of the apartheid regime. Things started out along those lines but after Mandela left office those that followed him were more interested in helping themselves from the public coffers than doing what they had promised to the electorate. It reached a crisis point under President Zuma where the guy was OPENLY stealing government funds that were intended to ensure land reform.

    Another one of these corrupt politicians goes by the name of Julius Malema. He was originally part of the ruling ANC party but was evicted for being a racist and he started his own party called the EFF. He is the black equivalent of white supremacist racists here in America. He is the primary advocate for taking land without compensation which violates the SA Constitution.

    There is something else that I discovered in my research. Foreigners have been responsible for stirring up race hatred in South Africa. This was done deliberately and maliciously during the corrupt Zuma regime.

    https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2017-09-05/for-whom-the-bell-pottinger-tolls-1

    A lot of what is now being touted as "white genocide" in South Africa originated for the purpose of stirring up racial hatred in order to deflect attention from the criminal theft of government funds.

    Zuma was ultimately deposed and replaced by Ramaphosa who is definitely a much shrewder politician and businessman than his predecessors. What he has done is to give Malema and his cronies enough rope to hang themselves.

    The South African electorate are quite justifiably agitated about the failure of land reform and as such they have taken to openly rioting in the streets. I have watched a video provided by @scarlet witch where you could see both those who now have their own homes and mortgages and those who still don't clashing over the ownership of vacant land. The interesting aspect was that everyone involved was blaming the failure on the ANC, not the whites. In fact there was only one person and she was one of the news people in the studio and not part of the issue at all.

    Ramaphosa has effectively guided the issue of land reform away from stealing land from white farmers, which does not help the vast majority who live and work in urban and suburban areas, to identifying land that is unused in those areas and can to utilized to provide housing where it is needed most. Ramaphosa clearly understands that the need to deal with urban housing is separate and distinct from the one that applies to farmland.

    The factual data does not support the allegations of "white farmer genocide" in South Africa. Yes, the country does have some serious issues not the least of which is an appallingly high crime rate but it is primarily caused by the rampant poverty. South Africans are no different to anyone else. They want jobs, homes, schools for their children and a normal life. They even mocked Malema when he posted something stupid on twitter. The people know who is to blame for their current situation and it is not whites. They are holding their own ANC government accountable and Ramaphosa knows that with an election looming in 2019 he needs to solve the land reform issue ASAP.

    What South Africa is experiencing is NOT a race based problem. It is a government corruption problem. The people there know that but here in America we are just being duped with the race baiting aspects because that sells advertising here.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
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  12. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Technically it was the IRON AGE and there were some sophisticated civilizations in Africa that are not generally well known about because the artifacts of that period have not survived probably because Africa is a very harsh climate.
     
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  13. Jitss617

    Jitss617 Banned

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    Didn’t think so ... mic drop
     
  14. superbadbrutha

    superbadbrutha Banned

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    Uh no i don't support taking other folks property, but in this case was it really their property to begin with and if you say it is how did they attain it.

    So you don't have a problem with what was done to black folks in SA.
     
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  15. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    The Iron Age in Europe and the Near East began earlier and the smelting techniques made their way into Sub-Saharan Africa centuries later, brought in by (you guessed it) the same 'Arabs, Indians, and Europeans' that brought the other trappings of civilization into what was largely still a "Stone Age" society (constant tribal warfare, ubiquitous slavery, slash-and-burn agriculture, etc.).

    Even something as elementary as the WHEEL wasn't widely used among indigenous populations in the southern portion of Africa until the 1800's! "The wheel (and axle) was barely used in Sub-Saharan Africa (except Ethiopia and Somalia) until colonial powers arrived in the 19th century. Though not independently invented, the wheel was known to African societies well before that." In short, the 'Arabs, Indians, and Europeans' brought the wheel and smelting techniques with them, along with everything else that transported Southern Africa into the Modern Age.

    Link: https://www.google.com/search?clien...ed+to+africa&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

    And all of this, truthfully, is beyond the main point. Today, South Africa is well-placed among 'civilized' nations. They have all the benefits of modern technology, and since the end of the Apartheid era, they've had true, 'Western-style' democratic government. So, NOW why would a strong contingent of Black Africans under Ramaphosa's presidency choose to practice confiscation, violence, and abuse of anyone? As an American, I cannot understand this, but one thing is clear -- a lot of White South Africans are desperate to save their lives, even with the loss of everything they own, and escape to Australia.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  16. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    What is the source for this claim about white South Africans being "desperate to save their lives"? The reason I am asking is because it appears as though there is a racist disinformation campaign that is being nefariously conducted that lacks any credible basis.

    There is no "confiscation, violence, and abuse" that is happening under the auspices of the ANC government and Ramaphosa. Instead there is a great deal of unrest caused by the housing issue but it is NOT directed at whites.

    The links I provided made it clear that what the ANC is doing is to determine the extent to which the government has the power to exercise what we call eminent domain here in America. That power exists amongst democracies and is granted since it is done for the purpose of the "greater good". The South African courts will ultimately decide what is and isn't considered to be "just compensation" for such acquisitions.

    So let's both approach the source of the claims about what is allegedly happening to white South Africans with an open mind. Let's look at who is saying what and who is funding them to say it. That will reveal the facts and help us to understand what is actually happening.
     
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  17. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Again, the best thing by far for South Africans is to find a way to continue their progress toward achieving an egalitarian , prosperous society where all citizens have the right to be able to pursue their own individual goals and aspirations. If White South Africans (or anyone in South Africa) is not being threatened with violence and confiscation, along with fearful immigration to another country, then that is very good, indeed. It will be interesting to see what Ramaphosa does next, or, what he allows to happen right under his nose....
     
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  18. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    I have no problems at all condemning the ANC for their corruption and failure in the past. If Ramaphosa fails he can expect the same and he will be hearing it from his own party members too. Given the shrinking support by the electorate for the ANC they are by no means "safe" from being ousted by other parties if they fail to win an outright majority in the future. Ramaphosa appears to be aware of the shrinking level of support which explains why he has engineered this compromise that will hopefully achieve the goal of resolving the housing issue. The question will be if it can make a difference before the ANC has to explain their failures to the South African voters next year.
     
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  19. Denizen

    Denizen Well-Known Member

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    There is a campaign of false information about South Africa which is being used by people trying to get privileged immigration status to other countries, not for fear of violence but for economic reasons.

    The campaign has been in progress for about 12 months and former South Africans in other countries are using it to try to get privileged entry for relatives who otherwise don't qualify for entry by occupation, age, or health.

    Black South Africans are more in danger from violence than are white South Africans including farmers.
     
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  20. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    If that is true that there are South African whites using racist disinformation in order to obtain privileged immigration status to other nations then South Africa is probably better off without those white racists IMO.

    That those other nations would want to have white racists as immigrants is up to them.

    As far as violence goes my research shows that whites are in less danger than blacks in South Africa. As I recall in one analysis white South Africans were on a par with America which says volumes about the violence we have here.

    Stirring up racism in South Africa again is regressive. Why anyone who experienced it would want that to happen again is beyond my comprehension?
     
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  21. Denizen

    Denizen Well-Known Member

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    It is being stirred up by South African emigrants now resident in other countries. They have no love for South Africa and will slander South Africa to gain privilege in their countries of residence.

    They are inciting racism for political support from racists in their country of residence and internationally.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
  22. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, I was not aware of that.

    One observation that I have made reading the comments of the usual suspects is that they want South Africa to fail because it will justify their erroneous belief in racist white supremacy. Personally I hope South Africa succeeds just to prove them wrong.
     
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  23. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    on another thread, someone said that when Palestinians did anything like that, doing so constitutes "terrorism" - if so, then this is terrorism as well
     
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  24. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    standard practice among those with a right wing leaning slant on this forum
     
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  25. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Whut?

    How's 'tis strikes you?

    Australian Official Calls for Emergency Visas for White South African Farmers

    HONG KONG — A top Australian official said this week that white farmers from South Africa should be granted emergency visas, saying they needed protection in a “civilized country” amid a debate over redistribution of their lands to black citizens.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/world/australia/south-africa-white-farmers-peter-dutton.html
     

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