-Continuation of traditional slander policy of the West and "hidden" massacres and mass murders that happened to Turks.- West,not only pushed Turks out of history and civilization,they repeated their claims of "Turks being a barbaric nation" in every chance they got to lower them amongst world nations and throw them out of humanity.They made a big slander campaign to create "murderer Turk" image. -Turk Massacre By Greeks- When Greeks are asked about 900.000 Turks they murdered during 1821 Greek revolution,they were comfortable enough to say "moon swallowed them".This Turk massacre by Greeks,is mentioned "Greek genocide" by Turks in Western history books. (Larousse) To learn the crimes of Greeks during Crete Independence War,you can listen the grand children of the ones who escaped from Crete in Side.The remaining ones were forced to change name and religion so the island was "cleaned". Balkan migrations were darkest times of Ottoman Empire's dissolution era.At the end of 19th century,4 million Turks were living in Balkans.During dissolution era,an important amount were forced to migrate to Istanbul and Anatolia because of massacres.Thousands of Muslim Turks lost their lives. After Greece's independence,Turks in Mora were forced to migrate and 20.000 Turks were massacred.Today only 500.000 Turks live in Balkans. -The Things Greek Cypriots Did to Turkish Cypriots- The memories of the genocide committed by Greek Cypriots to Turkish Cypriots are still fresh.First ethnic attacks in Cyprus started in 1912 during the period which Ottomans were losing power.Afterwards,political,social and economic boycotts and suppressions started. Under these psychological attacks,during World War II,14.000 Cypriot Turks were taken away from the island by British and forced to fight against Germans with Greeks.The Turkish existence on the island was promised for this.In 1952,EOKA was formed.This terrorist organization lead by Makarios,wanted to connect the island to Greece (Enosis). During 1963-1964,terror attacks increased.Hundreds of village raids,thousands massacred and forced to relocate.The most famous massacre of the period was "Bloody Christmas" on 20-21 December 1963.
Part II. . . -Azerbaijan Genocide By Armenians- In Azerbaijan Khojaly,one of the most brutal and inhumane massacres of recent history happened.Armenians occupied %20 of Azerbaijan's land and forced 1,5 million Azeri Turks to lose their homes.When they entered to Khojaly on 26th February 1992,they murdered 613 people in one night in a town which had total population of 3000. -The Massacres Armenians Committed to Turks- The massacres of Armenian gangs between 1910-1922 in Anatolia was revealed by Turkish state archives.According to offical numbers,Armenians murdered 523.955 Turks in Anatolia regardless of women,children,men and old. Offical documents and the discovered mass graves of Turks clearly shows how Armenians murdered Turks with every single detail such as date,place and names of the villagers.Today archives are open to anyone that wants to study them. -Armenian Terror- Between 1973-1985,ASALA terrorist organization,murdered 46 Turkish diplomats and 4 foreign citizens in 38 cities of 21 countries.Starting from 1968,ASALA murdered 46 people and wounded 299. -Kurdish PKK Terror- Kurdish terrorism claimed the lives of 6.653 soldiers,police officers and village guards and 5.687 civilians were killed including teachers,doctors,engineers,women,children since it first started in 1984. * * * During 1876-77 Ottoman-Russian War,Tzar's army massacred the Turkish towns and villages in Bulgaria and murdered 450.000 Turks.1 million of them had to flee to Istanbul. * * * None of these events are mentioned in Western history books.
Some Turks were indeed killed by Kurds, Armenians and by Greeks but never to the point to be called 'massacre' or 'genocide'. You were supposed to be an empire that occupied and ruled half of Europe for centures and now you are seeking apologies from the minories such as Kurds, Armenians and Greeks? it does not make sense at all, just ridiculous. Germans never asked Jews to apologize for some German soldies killed by Jewish uprising.
If you define millions of Balkan Turks and thousands in Crimea,Mora,Anatolia as "some Turks",thats your choice.
First you provide sources except writing everywhere "this genocide that genocide" that you decorate with your home made political terms except Wikipedia.And when you say Turk,it represents an identity more than ethnicity.There are not only Turkey Turks.
Armenian-Nazi Collaboration >>>>> http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/Nazi-Collaboration.htm Armenians Reveal Their Turk-Killing Ways >>>>> http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/armenian-slayers.htm Countering "Greek Genocide" Claims >>>>> http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/genocide-greek.htm Articles give sources.Dont start with "its all from the same website" excuse before checking.
show me your Resolution(s) from Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly : whats about the Ottomans identity?
That's a lie and you know it, but you want to use it to spread your hate pictures. By the way you know all too well too that you would have enough incidents to apologize for yourself.
You call it a lie because you dont know anything about it.Because they dont inject these to your brains at school like they promote armenians and kurds to you.Because EU commission doesnt use these politicaly. Your poor lack of knowledge can be understood from quoting only 1 sentence from a long text.Because you just post a comment just to seem like "I said something too".Just because you Germans are committed genocides,you dont have a right to label other nations with the same title.Your hypocrisy and ignorance is pathetic.
You stupid rustic, I call it a lie because all the incidents are mentioned in Western historical researches. Maybe the sheeps of Anatolia did not tell you, but if you don't have the slightest idea of Western historical research it would be maybe the best idea to shut up and count your sheeps instead of continuing to paint hate pictures. Maybe learn Enhlish before you join such a discussion!
Relax Adolf.I dont have any sheep to count.Insulting wont make you win any argument. It seems you learned "Enhlish" good enough so you can teach others LoL.
Which is not necessary because I already won. The lie, that Western historians try to wipe out these incidents from history is not true and only one more faioled trial from Turks to spread hate against the West. Next try! Others in general?? No! You? Yes, most definitely!
You didnt win anything and failed miserably.You absolutely couldnt even form a single sentence that makes sense in historic perspective.Thats why this conversation continued in such a direction.If you knew history,we would be discussing but instead you chose insulting me from the beginning.
As I told you learn English. I as well as Western historians do not deny these incidents, this is what you want to discuss. I marked exactly your lie, you are lying with your statement that Westerners want to ban these incidents from history. Fact is you will find these incidents in the books of Western historians. You are trying again to discuss these incidents, there is no discussion about it cause nearly no one would deny it. I am sure you will find many of these incidents in the English wikipedia. You created a straw puppet and you are lying. Of course you are using a propaganda side, which is exaggerating the losses by far, that's no wonder, cause as one get more and more the impression that an indenpendent Turkish historical research does not exist, but it's a propaganda machine of the Turks. Nevertheless many of these incidents are well known, e.g. the massacres of Greek nationalists on Creta. Just one example for an incident which did not exist in Western history according to you Massacres during the Greek Revolution It's only a mouse click away, but of course if you want to spread hatred it's easier to state that Westerners deny that. Oh, let's have a look at the sources given there. So all the publications that do not exist in Western history writing, which is about to deny that to supress you poor Turks are there. What will you try next? Find a Turk propaganda page which tells us Armenians eat children? That Greeks use Turks as an ingrendient for Gyro? That Israel is creating a virus especially against Turks? It would be entertaining if Turkey wasn't a serious threat.
I dont need to learn English from you.Its obvious that you have problems with understanding it yourself. Try to find a Greek Armenian or a school book that is thought in Germany or France that mentions about a little bit of what Greeks or Armenians did to Turks.Can you find? Probably not.Because main stream history always focuses on showing Turks as "monsters". In history books of the west,Turks are pictured as dark,cruel characters.Ottoman Sultans are shown as ugly with an evil laugh on their faces riding black horses with heavy dark armors.Kind of how they showed Persians in the movie 300. In World War 2 allied forces bombed and almost erased Vienna from the map but when you go to Vienna today you cant see a single thing that will remind the memory of that.Instead the Ottoman siege that happened 500 years ago is like it happened yesterday. You post a Wikipedia page and paste those a few academic references as a so called proof for "western scholars" dont denie what you wrote in this thread.Thats just really funny.You are trying to beat a centuries old slander campaign with a Wikipedia page. If West didnt denie the sufferings of the Turks,today they wouldnt fabricate genocides and demand apologizes for something new everyday.Greek army killed thousands just in the first day of their invasion of western anatolia during world war I.The tortures and massacres they did were erased from history by British. Did you ever see a European MP talking about the crimes of Armenians,Greeks or Kurds? Passing bills from their parliaments regarding the "massacres and genocides" that happened to Turks for once? NO.If France for example made a resolution about the Kholajy Azerbaijan genocide or the terror of EOKA on Cyprus or the Armenian massacres in Anatolia during world war I,I would say they are fair. On the other hand,any Turk saying the opposite of these is labelled as a "genocide denier" or "brainwashed nationalist".Just like you are doing to me now for talking about something different.Its like critisising Israel you become an "anti semite or a nazi" right away. So,as a result when you look at the general picture,you need more than a Wikipedia page to prove that west doesnt denie anything.Because they have been doing it for centuries.
I told you three times that you lied about Western historical research. You were inable to understand that I did not deny the incidents, but resented your statements about Western historical reasearch. This is a perfect example of how you work. If you knew German schoolbooks you would know that these conflicts on the Balkan are not such a huge topic especially in the WWI period. If you find the Armenian genocide at all then most propably as a foot note or maybe as a short mentioned passage in the text, if at all you find a short chapter about Ottoman vs. British warfare. German school books tend to focus on German history, the incidents in Mid Europe. And Germany is often accused by many other countries to understate the genocide of the Armenian due to its own role in it, which was not the brightest chapter in German history - the Reich did nothing to give the Armenians any release to keep its ally. These things you would know if you were even in the slightest interested in the content of German school books, but you are rather interested to create monsters yourself. Mid age rulers are mostly dark cruel characters if you take the ideals of today to judge them. That concerns many Sultans as many Mid European rulers as well and that is whats mainly taught in school. Pardon me, but it's again a huge lack of knowledge about history in Mid-Europe which you try to fill with your propaganda. I try to explain it as short as possible, you could fill pages with that chapter. In 1938 Hitler united Austria with the Third Reich. He used pressure and forced it, but what Austrians often don't want to hear, most Austrians were cheering in 1938, many fanatic Nazis and anti-Semites were from Austria, as e.g. Hitler himself. When the war was lost Austria's strategy was to present itself as the first victim of Hitler's agression instead and in the retrospective tried to pretend they always saw the Allies as liberators from Hitler. So - it's most obvious that Austria cannot accuse the guys, they want to present as their true allies (although thats a farcical) of war crimes, they cannot put the US in the place of its liberators but on the other hand complain about their intervention. In Germany on the other hand you have memorial days for allied air bombings targeting mostly civilians, what you miss in Austria. Nevertheless despite all the memorial days, within the whole context of WWII in which the attacks on the German civilians took place, it is most obviously not very appropriate to make accusations. Oh you going back centuries and of course there was never any war propaganda by the Turks towards Europeans. There is no "if", I disproved your propaganda lie above, the West don't deny, as the sources above prove. Your hate propaganda was disproved. They don't fabricate genocides and it's especially not the West. The West is one of your favourite hate pictures, the main ally of Armenia is Russia; this huge genocide however was not to be to keep as a secret from the rest of the world. I don't demand apologies from Turkey, my ancestors were not the victims. Nevertheless the image Westerners have from Turkey is not improved by their behaviour towards the Armenians. Thats contemporary war propaganda, do you have any idea what they wrote about Germans or what Germans wrote about Britishs? From which German MP did you hear any such statements about the crimes of Turks? I always hear outraging demands and accusation from the Turkish sides, which are rejected with a correct hint to Turkeys own attitude and treatment of minorities. Um, you have any idea what kind of tragedy it was to Armenians? They lost a high percentage of their whole population. You are denying them their memorial, you paint them as liars, but on the other hand you call every massacre of Greeks or Armenians genocide. You tried to wipe out any Armenian from that planet, send them on death marches, tortured them, castrated them, drowned them, raped women and children until they were death and killed a high percentage of their whole population with that, but you have nothing better to do than to accuse the Armenians as liars and demand resolutions against them. It's unbearable. It's a question of the tone. I can lable Polish, Checz or Russian massacres on Germans at the end and in the aftermath as terrible war crimes and incontrovertible unbelievable horror put on the victims. Nevertheless everyone who is honest have to state that from a larger point of view the German crimes were much more in number and the consequences for the occipied countries were much more desastrous. Demanding an excuse for that, demanding other countries to isolate them and labelling them as war criminals and liars, denying the whole package of unbearable crimes we did to Poles, Russian or Czech people would be simply outragous. So are Turkeys permanent denial of their own crimes and permanent accusations of the Armenians. And I am not involved in the last consequence it's not my cup of tea, but of course every German MP will remember their fate when Turkey is again out to spread hate against against Germany. Nobody cares if it would be just a normal debate, but it's the tone Turkey uses towards Armenians, which upsets many people and not just in the Western countries. I did not see very often people who critizized Israel and were labelled as anti-Semites, I see more often anti-Semites who were trying to mask their anti-Semitism behind anti-Zionism correctly labelled as anti-Semites - not stating that such things you mention do not exist. Yes, and the brave pure Ottomans with the white vest never used war propaganda against the West, nor they committed atrocities.
LoL you are just hopeless.Your mentality is the living example of the chronic point of view of the west towards Turks. For you,the possibility of Armenians or Greeks might have committed a crime too is an impossible possibility. Greek massacres during invasion of Anatolia is war propaganda,Armenians murdering Turks in world war I and the archive documents related to it is hate page.Sufferings of Balkan Turks doesnt make sense because they didnt give much space to it in German school books.You are the one who disrespects people's sufferings and losses because you are in denial of their losses all the time. On the other hand,you mostly talk based on assumptions and "what if"s...the only answer you can give against for "western denial of Turk sufferings and one sided version of history" with a Wikipedia page and you consider yourself a winner.LoL thats just pathetic. Your mentality is an unhealthy one.
Your propaganda is becoming stupid. Everyone can see that you are lying, everyone can see I never denied the massacres, nor did I deny Turks suffering during WWI, everyone can even read it exactly in my last comment. And it was just example to prove that you are lying, you lied with everything, German kids in school are not focused on Turkish history, I explained, they learn neither much about Armenian nor Turk war crimes. None of the crimes you are mentioning is denied by the West and no serious influential is spreading hate propaganda against Turk, like you do here against the West. You are such a coward that you constantly have to lie (like that I denied Greek massacres in WWI), instead of telling the truth you simply hate Western Europeans. Instead you try to create resons for hating them, such as that they deny there have been war crimes against Turks or that Turks suffered during WWI.
LoL still saying "not denied by the west" and avoiding almost everything I said.Still calling me a liar and hater because I mention things you dont know. This thread was about west,not your personal views.LoL calling everything different than what you were thought as "propaganda" like I have a reason to do so. Anyway,this conversation was a good example of the chronic diseased western mentality.Not to expect much from grandsons of Hitler.
Because everything you say is a lie and I proved that. You stated that the West denies the incidents you mention, I corrected you, Western historians. You stick to your lies to spread hate. Oh, you think you know German school books better than me about which you lied as well. So then, cite the denial passages and cite the lies about Turkey of let's just say of a dozen of school books. Oh wait, now I put you into problems, you don't know even one German school book, you just telling fairy tales about it, to proliferate Turkish hate propaganda. I visited a German school and I read German school books, so I know definitely that you are lying, it's not about what I think, I simply know that you are lying. It was a perfect conversation which shows the disgusting attitude of vast parts of the Turkish society towards other cultures. It is disgusting even if you are not directly aimed at and I begin to understand why many countries see the necessity to protect victims of the Turkish hate propaganda like Armenians from Turkish nationalist hate pictures. Typical Turkish argument.
Lol you are really sick in the head.I wrote about general school books not only German ones. I dont live in the vast part of Turkey.I live in Istanbul.Your Nazi mentality shows itself.Do you wear your brown shirt and shorts everyday when you go to work? You have been repeating the same words over and over again like an old woman "lies,propaganda,hate".You are so blind to realise you are the one who has been spreading it at first place.I didnt write hateful words and insults as much as you did. You dont have one single fact to support what you stand for except a Wikipedia page.You spent 95% of the conversation with writing assumptions and empty literature that insults Turks with your one sided chronic mentality and then declaring yourself as the winner LoL But repeating them wont make you win the argument Hans. A German lecturing someone about "hate,propaganda and humanity" LOL what has the world become? You stick to your delusions and one sided chronic views and pretend as a winner.I know my history.A thick headed German who is full of ignorance doesnt have to agree with me. Now go eat your sauer kraut.
I gave you a Wikipedia page, which proved that you tell us fairy tales about the West denying Greek massacres on Turks in 1821 according to you, that Wikipedia page gives you dozens of links to publications of Western historians, who wrote about that massacres. What's the problem with that? I just took out one of your false accusations, the others can be easily disproved as well. I will repeat it as often as I want, you are making fun that I have given you only a Wikipedia page with dozens of links which disprove your thesis and you yourself has nothing more than a thesis which is proved to be wrong by that page, which gives you several Western publications about the massacres which - according to you - are denied by the West. What more can I do than to prove that it is not denied and that your thesis is complete nonsense? You stick to your lie, make fun of the sources I gave you and completely lack own. A wikipedia page with dozens of publications linked, which prove that you are lying. And you simply have no facts. All you tell us from "the West" is based on lies and hate propaganda. You mentioned Austria and I had to teach you some basics about Austria, you did not know, why they don't accuse the US for an air raid on Vienna, you did not know their history, you did not know anything about its policy, let me guss you would not even find it on a map. You tell me about what's written in German or Western school books which is complete nonsense, you have never lookes into one, you simply work with what your hate propaganda tells you what's written in Western school books. You couldn't quote anything as you cannot give answers to simple questions put on you, cause you don't know anything about the people you hate. You don't even know that Russia or Armenia or not part of what is labelled as "West". I don't want to insult Turks in the slightest, it's a mirror of my experience with them. As you here insult in this case Germans, in other cases Westerners whatever your hate picture currently is, as you whine about when I resent these insults, as you are only full of disrespect for other cultures you are what I experienced as typical for Turks. We had it in another thread, you started regularly to falsify my nick with your racist stereotypes, calling me Hans, Adolf and so on, when I simply replied with "Ali" you cry out Nazi as you do here. That's exactly what my experience with Turks is. I won't reply now with "Ali" cause it won't change anything, to normal persons it would be an indirect hint that they went too far, but not for you. Your behaviour - I can guarantee everyone who reads on this board - is absolutely fitting to my experience with Turks here. As you think you behave here best and you think yourself to give a shining example I don't know why you think this to be an insult. Your "Do you wear your brown shirt and shorts everyday when you go to work?", "But repeating them wont make you win the argument Hans.", "A German lecturing someone about "hate,propaganda and humanity", "Now go eat your sauer kraut." discussion style is exemplaric for my experiences with Turks. As you think as you tell here you are the winner, what insult should it be for you, if I simply state that?
