Why and where did Jesus go away?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Canell, Mar 21, 2024.

  1. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    Howdy,

    It is widespread belief among Christians that Jesus went away... and He's gonna come back again. Presumably very soon.
    My questions are:

    1. Where did Jesus go? Business trip? Vacation? Prayer? Meditation?
    2. If Jesus "went away" why are Christians hoping that He will answer their prayers? Please, Jesus, give me this. Please Jesus, give me that. Please Jesus, help me, etc etc.
    3. Jesus Himself said "I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." (Mathew 28:20). How can He be "away", as stated in other parts of the Gospel (the "vineyard" parable and the "10 virgins" parable) and "with us, to the end of the world"?

    Anyone? :)
     
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  2. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    No one interested?

    Perhaps you can explain to me this then:

    I know that "1000 human years are like 1 day to the Lord" but why can't God "stand in our shoes" for a while? After all this Revelation is written for people to read, not plants and animals, not archangels and aliens. If I say to some friend "I'll come by soon" that doesn't mean I'll come by in 20 years.
    And why did Jesus have to leave in the first place?

    This Christianity matter is so vague and inconsistent. :roll:
     
  3. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus ascended into Heaven to "prepare a place for you". (John 14) If you research the details of how ancient Jewish weddings were done, you will notice that the same process is being followed between Jesus and "his bride" (the Christian Church).

    That's not the correct way to pray, for starters. But yes, Jesus does take care of his own. He shepherds his flock.

    Jesus is always with us through his Holy Spirit.
     
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  4. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    He did. He came to Earth via being born of a virgin woman and lived here for over 30 years (estimated 33-38 years). You can read all about it in the Gospel accounts.

    He left "to prepare a place for you". Look into the customs of an ancient Jewish wedding. Jesus is currently preparing a home for his bride.

    Yes, there are lots of things that seem contradictory to each other, but that's just an opportunity to learn the finer details of why they aren't actually contradictions.
     
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  5. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    When Jesus "went away" there was no Church, except a few people (hid disciples). The Church was born in 325 AD in Nicaea.
    So, it appears Jesus wanted to "grow" himself a bride instead of marrying a "ready" one. 1700 years of growing, fating and educating a bride.

    If Jesus = God, then the whole Universe and all creatures existing are "His own" by default. If we believe that God is the Creator of the Universe, that is.

    So, the Christians are praying wrong then? They must refer to the Holy Spirit, not Jesus. Because Jesus is obviously not here. He went to do some "home work" and TLC.

    Right. :roll:
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2024
  6. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    The Church was born on Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples, which happened a short time after Jesus ascended into heaven.

    It's more-so about describing the special/unique relationship between a particular group of people ("New Testament believers") and Jesus.

    Jesus is God, yes.

    The words "his own" refer specifically to the people who are "his sheep"... IOW, the people who know him, trust him, and follow his lead. IOW, believers in God, and not just the ones who give lip service.

    Of course. That's how believing in something on a faith basis works. It can't be proven true or false. It requires faith to get there.

    Plenty of Christians do pray incorrectly. I used to be one of them. Like anything else in life, prayer takes plenty of time, repetition, and making mistakes along the way in order to become better at it.

    Think of it like a phone call. Christians pray to God (the Father... the recipient of the call), through Jesus (the Son... the phone line connecting the caller to the recipient), with the help of the Holy Spirit (the data transfer).

    I'm being serious. If you wish to learn, then I'd be glad to teach you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2024
  7. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    What are others then - just a movie crowd? Aren't we all children (sons and daughters) of God?

    And while we are at it - what is Jesus - "the son of God (aka God's only begotten Son) or "the son of man"? Can you please tell?

    My brain will explode because of this complexity. :lonely:

    Thanks, I'll think about it. :ufo:
     
  8. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Others (unbelievers) are "not his own". Of course, all are welcome to become "his own".

    No. Only believers are God's children. Of course, all are welcome to become God's children.

    Jesus is both. This is one of the "seemingly a contradiction" instances that I mentioned earlier. Jesus is both because of his dual nature (divine and human).

    Don't sweat it. Even lifelong Christians feel that way at times.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2024
  9. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    And who created atheists and nonbelievers, Santa Claus?
    If God created them, they are His children also.

    Got it. :shh:

    Well, what can I say - I am a simpleton. :roll:
     
  10. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Can you provide empirical evidence for your Holy Spirit claim?
     
  11. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Luke 24:
    49 "`And, lo, I do send the promise of my Father upon you, but ye -- abide ye in the city of Jerusalem till ye be clothed with power from on high.'

    50 And he led them forth without -- unto Bethany, and having lifted up his hands he did bless them,

    51 and it came to pass, in his blessing them, he was parted from them, and was borne up to the heaven;

    52 and they, having bowed before him, did turn back to Jerusalem with great joy,

    53 and were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen"

    Acts 1:
    6 "They, therefore, indeed, having come together, were questioning him, saying, `Lord, dost thou at this time restore the reign to Israel?'

    7 and he said unto them, `It is not yours to know times or seasons that the Father did appoint in His own authority;

    8 but ye shall receive power at the coming of the Holy Spirit upon you, and ye shall be witnesses to me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and Samaria, and unto the end of the earth.'

    9 And these things having said -- they beholding -- he was taken up, and a cloud did receive him up from their sight;

    10 and as they were looking stedfastly to the heaven in his going on, then, lo, two men stood by them in white apparel,

    11 who also said, `Men, Galileans, why do ye stand gazing into the heaven? this Jesus who was received up from you into the heaven, shall so come in what manner ye saw him going on to the heaven.'

    12 Then did they return to Jerusalem from the mount that is called of Olives, that is near Jerusalem, a sabbath's journey;"

    So its pretty clear Jesus went to Heaven.

    People pray to Jesus for lots of reasons, but ultimately, proabably the same reason anyone prays about anything, or even just meditates for that matter. Indeed prayer tends to have the same effect on brain activity as does meditation, and many people consider them to basically be the same thing.

    Presumably, being the son of God and borne up into Heaven where God also presumably resides, it stands to reason that Heaven is not necessarily a seperate place, or being in heaven does not necessarily preclude one from being able to hear -and answer- prayers. If heaven does exist, it most likely does as a sort of paralel reality or dimension that we can't normally access. This goes back to my theory that we humans are ultimately multidimensional beings, with a physical body tied to physical reality, but also with a spirit that has a limited connection to a different, parallel reality that our physical body cannot experience. Once no longer held within a physical body, the spirit is able to move between 'planes'.

    ...or, you know, he's an alien, he went into a ship called 'The Heaven' and he's in space now :p
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2024
  12. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    I like that, thanks. :applause:
    May be He really did, who knows.
     
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  13. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is an excellent, but very complicated question, probably would need its own long thread. There are some Christian groups who do not feel comfortable making prayers to Jesus, but only to God the father. But other Christians are comfortable with it because they view Jesus as being in the trinity with God.
    And then there are also Catholics who feel comfortable addressing prayers to saints, as intercessors, which is a whole other discussion.
     
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  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When he said "you", he was probably referring to believers. So that's one important thing to give some thought to. The parable of the 10 virgins has to do with after leaving life on earth.

    You will need to explain why you think the vineyard parable has something to do with your question. If you're talking about Matthew 21:33-41, the son and the father sort of know what's going on, it's just they decide to confront the tenants over it. And you have to remember it is an analogy, which is an imperfect one because it is a parable of ordinary humans.

    The fact that he made a statement like this seems to be a claim of some level of divinity, since it seems to be that he's claiming to be present in the same sort of way that God is. Perhaps I could be incorrect, but that seems to be very obvious.

    I'm not sure if your question is trying to get at the precise nature of the man-god duality.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2024
  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For more information about that, you can read this link:
    Ancient Jewish Wedding Customs and Yeshua's Second Coming | Messianic Bible
     
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  16. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    If you're asking me to "prove it", then the answer is no.
     
  17. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    God created Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve (and their descendants) created their descendants.
     
  18. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    Well it has to do with it the fact that the vineyard lord "went away" in a "far country", I presume. ;)
    And yes, it's a parable, I know.

    Well, if Jesus is omnipresent, then my question is out of touch.
    But then again "The Second Coming" implies that Jesus is somewhere there (and not here) from where He will "come again".
     
  19. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying me and you, as 'descendants of Adam and Eve', we are not created by God? :blownose:
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2024
  20. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well then there's a bit of a dichotomy. Jesus is away, but also near.

    It all ties into the bigger question of "If God is omnipotent and omniscient, why don't I see God? Why doesn't he intervene more?"

    Here is one analogy. Imagine you have a child or parent who is living in another country, but twice a day they communicate with you by video, and they send you cards, money, and presents. Even sometimes remotely hire people to help you do things.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2024
  21. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He's obviously physically absent, in one sense, but present, in another sense.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2024
  22. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It can be both at the same time. Imagine the vineyard owner hiding behind a bush and watching what the tenants are doing. So it's like he is not there, but he is still present.

    When he "returns", those tenants are going to face punishment.
     
  23. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    I guess the fact that He was resurrected in a physical body is not very convenient to Him, right?
    When you are trapped in a body it's hard to roam the Universe. Let alone talk/listen to millions of people who address you all at the same time in their prayers.

    Well, the Gospel says the vineyard owner went to a far country, not behind the corner. Please, see Matthew 21:33 for details.
     
  24. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    I misspoke in my prior post (I focused too much on the physical and lost sight of the spiritual). My error.

    Ultimately, it is God doing the creating of everyone (via the descendants of Adam and Eve being "the vehicle" for doing so).

    “For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb.” - Psalm 139:13

    Again, my mistake.
     
  25. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego Active Member Past Donor

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    Canell:

    According to scripture, Jesus returned to heavenly life in the form that he originally was in: a spirit person. He came to earth briefly (33 years) so that he could die a sacrificial death and thereby repurchase humanity from Adamic death. It was never intended that he would stay on earth.

    Alter2Ego
     

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