Why are Democrats being skewered as “Socialists” when Socialism hasn’t ever existed ...

... as a form of government anywhere; and probably never will.

Why would any American want "socialism" when every American is invested in Capitalism. TRaitor tRump and his tRumpublicans accusing Democrats of being "socialists" is nonsense.

At the macro, world government, level it's ... MY ... OPINION ... that true socialism, communism even fascism have never existed as a form of government. We certainly have had Autocratic Oligarchic Totalitarian governments that called themselves socialism, communism or fascism. I'm not sure I've ever really understood fascism because to me it was, at its inception, an Autocratic Oligarchic Totalitarian tyranny spun in patriotic cotton candy laced with arsenic. So! That just about takes care of “Macro”.

To say that socialism "was more widely rejected by Americans in the past", if you mean prior to the Great Depression and FDR, then I say that's as disingenuous as accusing Democrats of being socialists. Because, prior to the Great Depression Americans generally had no say in the matter of our economic system. OUR economic system was dictated by the rich and powerful and we all played by their rules and terms; I'm not even sure it was even called capitalism then. Look it up, I don't think "capitalism" became colloquial until the ?teens?, ?20's?, ?30's?, certainly not before the turn of the last century and Teddy's trust busting.

We have never had “a welfare state", not in the 30's, not ever. Faced with unprecedented poverty and misery, FDR, for the first time, used government funds to INVEST in America. He used those funds to build the infrastructure that "Made America Great", roads, rural power lines, dams to power it, national parks and War. And he took steps to ensure that Americans would never again be subject to the whims of Wall Street/capitalism. And it "Made U.S. Great" and it made U.S. a world power, THE World Power. Where we ****ed up is not continuing to invest in U.S. and letting the rich few convince us that it's wrong to expect our government to serve U.S everyday Americans, but it’s OK to cater to those same rich sons of bitches that want ... everything.

What has become "fashionable" and necessary "beginning in the 1960's" by the "left" is a resistance to the propaganda of tax-free right wing think tanks that have funded research that, "surprisingly" supports their notion that fewer and fewer wealthy people should become ever more wealthy and pay less and less taxes, while they tinkle down on the rest of us. Nixon paved the way for unlimited debt growth when he went off the gold standard and Reagan made good on it by taking debt growth exponential, which tRaitor tRump copied in spades with his voodoo economics 2.0., cutting taxes "BIGGLY" for the rich in perpetuity and gave us tinkle down's a "small-ly" break for a few years; "a spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down".

Regan went on to deregulate everything he could and cut FDR's social safety net that had protected U.S. from Wall Street for fifty years. Which ended up in destroying America as the worlds manufacturer, shipping our jobs and knowledge, even the machines that had "Made U.S. Great" to Asia. They then started shipping cheap ass crap back to U.S., that was supposed to replace the quality goods AmeriCAN's had been making. Which was, in a macabre way, good, because that's all we could afford, we were so impoverished by Reagan's programs U.S. couldn’t afford anything else.

NO American want's unbridled socialism, we are all ... all in ... on capitalism. But we're damn tired of unbridled capitalism with no social safety net to protect U.S. from the rich Wall Street banksters. It' s not "socialism" or "communism" especially not "fascism" to want good paying, union protected jobs with benefits, and government programs to protect us when Wall Street ****s up. It's not socialism to expect the richest people on the planet to pay their fair share, in taxes, back into the system that made them wealthy in the first place.

What "that" AbsaByGodLutely ... IS ... is the kind of Capitalism that "Made America Great" in the first place.

 

The only place I have ever heard that "communism" works most efficiently is in monasteries. Monks making liqueurs and fruitcakes seem to be okay with it.

But yes, I agree with the OP. I prefer to compare our governmental ideal to be like a yoga pose, properly balanced to meet our needs and adjusting when needed.

 

Thanks for taking time to read all of that, it really was a response to another OP the just ... didn't sit well.

 

Skewering folks as 'socialists' is indeed a little too inaccurate. But generally speaking, when someone is called a socialist, its in reference to their desire that individuals and/or companies be made to have less control over private resource so that groups can be made to have more control over resource, be it via higher taxes, labor and commerce regulations or at the extreme end even the confiscation/redistribution of property. Grouping them all together in a big lump is pretty lazy, but it happens on both sides. I, for example, do not support the anarchy of no taxes and no regulation, and yet when I advocate that we lower taxes and reduce regulations, that is precisely how many 'socialists' try to frame my position for me.

I think in this context we all know pretty much what eachother mean. Its people who generally want more govt and people who generally want less, in the vast majority of circumstances. And while its a good idea to try to speak with precision and not stuff people into boxes, lets not pretend we don't understand what eachother are generally talking about.

 

I see leftists in three groups that can be likened to a family

You have the minor children-they are the voters who want the government to take care of them and to make the difficult choices for them.

then you have the libertine teens. They don't want to be told what to do but they dont' want to be held responsible for their own bad judgment or mistakes. They despise the religious right calling them "sinners" and this group contains everyone from the abortion is a sacred right to the alphabet lobby.

and finally, you have those who want to be the parents. They want to run the lives of others and manage the finances of everyone else. They want power

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism#Etymology

"Capitalism" in its modern sense has been in use since the mid-1800s, often by it's socialist critics.

 

But, that's not what Democrats or progressive liberals want. America needs to take better care of all Americans. You can't deny that the wealthy are given many breaks ordinary American's aren't. Some of them ordinary Americans can't even take advantage of. Yet, over the last two ... three generations all the protections against financial disaster, most often caused by the rich, have been taken away or gutted. While jobs have been disapearing because of OUR laws that allowed them too; because it benefited the rich.

But some of those regulations protected American jobs and it's been a long time getting back to where we were. Globalization didn't work for us. It made Americans poorer and jeopardized national security.

Not everyone has the same needs and abilities, American's shouldn't have to let their children go hungry; and it's rarely because they are lazy. We have many "social programs" that benefit the wealthy", no one is carping about that. It's our government's job to make sure Americans have an equal chance and it hasn't been doing that, at least since Ronald Reagan. That's NOT socialism.

 

And they are very rare.

They are also people that have been taken advantage of by unfair lending, housing and taxing practices.

I don't blame them, who gave "the religious right" the right to call them anything? Not the Constitution.

It's not a sacred right, it's viewed by MOST Americans as a human right.

I don't know what that is.

Of course that's the superior conservative RW.

Yep, the Conservative RW.

 

You are claiming that the number of voters who are dependent on the government are very rare? LOL

that's not the libertine set

LBQTGCXYZ

wrong again, sure there are the bible thumpers who want to impose their stilted morality on others but that pales in comparison with the big government control freaks like Bloomberg who want to tell you what guns you can own, what you do with your own money or how big a soda you can buy

 

From your link:
"In the United States, the term "capitalist" primarily referred to powerful businessmen[70] until the 1920s due to widespread societal skepticism and criticism of capitalism and its most ardent supporters."
Which is the point I tried to make; thanks for looking it up.

 

Yes, I am. Yes most people don't make enough to pay Federal Taxes (which IS the problem not the people) but they also have a job or jobs and support themselves and get very little if any Federal aid.

Who's defining who's in the set?

So? "LBQTG" can't lobby but Exon can?

I don't think so, can you document numbers for either side? It's easy to look down on the disadvantage from your lofty middle class perch. Which is exactly what the wealthy hope you will do, because while your doing that you're ignoring them.

There are a lot of people, on all sides that want to tell other people how to live. That's why we need a free and fair government sympathetic to everyone's needs. Sometimes you win sometimes you loose. But until Reagan the majority of Americans had a chance, not even an equal chance, but a chance. Now we have systemically poor that don't even know what the American dream was.

 

what do you think causes that? I believe it is because we make being poor in the USA too easy and one party wants lots of poor people to be dependent on the government and their politicians

 

I know what caused it. Deregulation of what protected industry and kept it IN the USA.

You should volunteer at a homeless center and see how "easy" they have it.

That's horseshit.

 

They say that because Democrats seem to be moving toward stalinism. Stalin's firm of government seems to be way trying socialism leads to.

Call it whatever you want it always ends in famine or genocide.

 

If you really believe this, then you seem to be very ignorant about what many others in your party believe.

There are countless threads in the forum, too many to count, that show what the current Democrat Party's current priorities and motives are.

It is "Socialism", but more like a "soft" form of it.

You sound like you're a very moderate Democrat. (Either that or possibly a liar)

 

No it was actually permissiveness of petty crime. Crime drives poverty not the other way around.

Compared to the homeless in India it China?

Then why do they do everything in their power to make sure poor people stay poor?

The best thing to help poor people out of poverty is arrest and imprison the criminals that pray on them in blue places like NYC they didn't even make criminals post bond. Just go out and tape and pillage to your heart's delight.

 

What????

Who?

Is that really what you meant?

Gibberish was what came to mind.

Gibberish is bad, but not that bad.

 

I think the two competing philosophies are between meritocracy and kakistocracy.

Meritocracy suggests the most qualified should hold positions. Kakistocracy is the opposite, the least qualified should hold positions. This happens either through nepotism or cronyism. The leftist idea of promoting only black trans women is cronyism on a racist sexist bias.

 

No, it's you that is ignorant of what ANYBODY (apparently) in my party believes.
There are countless threads in the forum, too many to count, that show what the current Democrat Party's current priorities and motives are.

NO! Its capitalism with social programs designed to protect working Americans from the periodic and constant mistakes of Wall Street.

I'm not a liar. Are you? Hell I used to be a Republican, back when there WERE Republicans.

WHY would you think I'm a liar?

 

No, I think the mentality of many on the Left goes much beyond this.

And the Democratic Party panders to this big faction on the Left, for a variety of reasons.

Maybe the Democratic Party should try to focus more on the economy and making sure there are plenty of good jobs for Americans.
(a policy that's not just focused on government jobs, and that has better ideas than just raising minimum wage and thinking that will make everything good)

 

You didn't know who the Democrats are? They're the politicians with a little D next to their name.

As usual you are too scared to respond. It's okay I read your message loud and clear.

 

that's part of balkanizing America-a goal of the Democrat elites that David Broder warned about over 30 years ago-he noted that when the American left (seeing the collapse of the USSR) realized they couldn't turn the USA into another USSR, they settled with trying to balkanize this nation into warring ethnic and gender based special interest groups

 

They who?

The most poverty stricken places in America are red.

 

Yeah I know I'm right and I know you can't argue.

Go ahead and post your pictures. It's all you can do. Thinking is just to hard.

 

I don't think the Republicans are any better. They're just the Democrats but slower.