Why Are There No Israelis In This Forum?

Spiel - if you know anything abt that land as you pretend to , then surely you know that it has a long history and had many "sovereignities". First it was the land of Canaan, then invaded by runaway Egyptian slaves , calling themselves Hebrews , then Babylonians, then Romans, later Byzantine Christians, then Arabs who liberated Jews from Byzantine oppression/persecution .
Yes believe it or NOT the land was once ARab land , BEFORE it came under Muslim Turkish control, why else would the overwhelming majority inhabitants have been ARABS (BOTH Christian+ Muslim ) ? Why were the inhabitants Arabs + NOT Turks ?

Can you also explain why majority populations/inhabitants spoke Arabic - + not Turkish /Yiddish or the rehashed/rebaked Hebrew ?

As for yr claim that " it can never, ever be sovereign under another group." does that in your OPINION - rule out Jewish aspirations of a "soverein " JEWISH STATE ?



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The Jews (as of 1947) owned 6% the land, they got 55% of the land during the partition.

The Arabs did not own only 45% of the land. In fact of that 55 or 56 percent of land that was promised to Jews in the partition, 90.62% of it belonged legally to private Palestinian or Arab owners. Even when Israel was first established with 78% of the land rather than that of the partition, (so after the war) 88% of that land in law, belonged (was owned by) private Palestinian Arabs.

 

It was never Arab or Palestinian land, perhaps you could tell me what Palestinian state existed?

Its quite simple the mandate of Palestine was a imaginary piece of land with imaginary boundaries, the Jews had no reason to accept to have their land become part of an Arab state.

 

Is that so ? In which case which land was partitioned in order to create a land now called "Israel " for Europe's , unwanted/rejected AshkeNasties " ?

True , Palestinian was , before the Mandate , part of the Ottoman empire , but before the Ottoman's wasnt in entirely under Arab control since the fall of Byzantium ?

Dutchman - pull yr finger out + GO LEARN .

 

Actually under Ottoman administration in Palestine, the central governance was weak, leaving the people in the main under their own local rule.

And what makes this land exclusively Jewish land?

To exert authority over a territory you do not necessarily need a state. Your analyzing statehood as "sovereignty". Sovereignty can be interpreted to refer to the rights of a people rather than the rights of a state.

 

Khalil, this is complete nonsense, more than half of the land allocated to Israel was the Negev desert - uninhabited and unsuitable for agriculture at the time. It did not belong to the Arabs, it belonged to the [non-arab] government.

 

Nice of you to once again only pick and choose what parts of my argument you'd like to reply to...

You have to be kidding me though right? One of the biggest reasons that the Arabs rejected the partition plan is related to economics. About 90% of the lands of the proposed Jewish state belonged to the Arabs like I said. The Partition Plan was economically unjust. It would have harmed the economy of several Arab towns and villages. More than half of the Coastal Plains which produced the famous Jaffa orange, was Arab property. Nearly all the orange groves were not included in the Palestinian state. The land Israel was established on seized Palestinian groves, 10% of Palestine's hard currency profits from export. 95% or so of all olive groves were seized, and olive produce represented one pf Palestine's largest exports, for Israel third. This also would seize 52 of quarries. The Palestinians also would lose the coastal fertile plain, irrigated lands, and Huleh basin, leaving the Arab state to consist of the arid mountainous regions, and with nearly no irrigation or agricultural posibilities.

When you say the "non-Arab government" I'm supposing your talking about either the Ottomans or British. Like I said on the previous page about the Ottomans, under Ottoman administration in Palestine, the central governance was weak, leaving the people in the main under their own local rule. And the British in fact, didn't actually own much of the land. The mandatory regime's land ownership was some 2% of the current Israeli state. The British were not there to own the land, but eventually to create an independent government and get rid of Ottoman influence. The Arabs did a great job in the contribution of overthrowing the Ottomans during the McMahon-Hussein Correspondence. This partition though was done not long after the British gave up on solving the question of Palestine. Britain actually put the question of Palestine into the hands of the United Nations during the partition.

The whole partition plan was unjust anyway, for many more reasons.

 

So by your logic, land sold by the British colonial authorities to British people is still owned by the British people after America declared independence? Why does colonial selling of land usurp the right of its inhabitants and local interests? It doesn't. Furthermore, you did not address my point about the zionist ethnic cleansing that took place.

 

You did say that and I refuted that with facts - more than half of the Jewish partition was uninhabited Negev desert. Your claim therefore that 90% of the Jewish land belonged to the Arabs is a mathematical impossibility.

Sorry Khalil, but that's nonsense again, the Arab partition had 1/3 of the coastline, access to the the river and the Dead See, all the highlands that contained the major aquifers of Palestine. That BTW was happening after the Palestinians had already gotten 80% of Mandate Palestine and called it Trans-Jordan. Cut the cr&p Khalil, the Arabs got a very good deal, the Jews got the Negev.

You did say that Khalil and once again whether you are right or wrong (I have no interest to research it) it is totally irrelevant as it does not affect the land ownership that we are discussing here. The land belonged to the government (or public domain) regardless of whether the central government was weak or strong.

 

Again, you continue to pick and choose what you'd like to respond to.

The Negev Desert was not completely uninhabited, as of 1946, the Palestinian population living in the Negev was over 100,000. Also, there was virtually no Jewish presence in the Negev region. The Palestinian land ownership (as in legal terms) was about 15% in the Beersheba district, while about 85% of it was owned by Arab land lords (the Palestinian population was still the majority). My claim about the 90% was not incorrect at all. The Palestinian land ownership in Palestine exceeded that of the Jews and other populations in every single district of Palestine. The Jews owned 9.38% of the proposed Jewish state, consequently 90.62% was not Jewish owned (so this 90% is not only Palestinians, but also "public ownership", along with others not related to the government owned lands, but all claims to it had been relinquished after Britain left - and still was very small percentage). Within the 1949 armistice lines though, the state domain of Israel is about 67,000-89,000 acres, the Israeli government took that from the mandatory regime (only 2% of Israel). While, the land ownership from the JNF and other private Jeiwsh owners possessed about 10% of the land where Israel was established. While, 88% of the land Israel was established belonged mainly to Arab owners (if not all since Britain backed out).

The next part you quoted may seem like nonsense once you quote it out of context. Here let me put the rest of what I had said so its in context:

You have to be kidding me though right? One of the biggest reasons that the Arabs rejected the partition plan is related to economics. The Partition Plan was economically unjust. It would have harmed the economy of several Arab towns and villages. More than half of the Coastal Plains which produced the famous Jaffa orange, was Arab property. Nearly all the orange groves were not included in the Palestinian state. The land Israel was established on seized Palestinian groves, 10% of Palestine's hard currency profits from export. 95% or so of all olive groves were seized, and olive produce represented one of Palestine's largest exports, for Israel third. This also would seize 52 of quarries. The Palestinians also would lose the coastal fertile plain, irrigated lands like Tiberias, and Huleh basin, leaving the Arab state to consist of the arid mountainous regions, and with nearly no irrigation or agricultural posibilities.

Believe it or not, but the part proposed to the Palestinian state was not fertile. There is only a sparsely cultivatable area and it held little to no irrigation possiblities. Since of course much of the land is just arid mountains in the region. The Jewish proposed area of the state held the much more coastal fertile plain along the Mediterranean. This may also explain why current demographic studies on Israel show that 78% of Israelis are living in 14% of Israel! Only 22% of present day Israelis live on the other 86% of the land!

Again your assumption that all the land legally belonged to the public domain or under Ottoman rule known as miri is completely wrong. The government did not own all the land. In fact a map by the Palestine Government in 1945, and published as a United Nations map shows that land lord and public ownership was very small, but still exceeded that of the Jewish land ownership. And oddly, much of this land owned by the mandatory regime was inhabited by Palestinians.

 

Faux palestinian. What are you?

 

You just made my argument for me, thanks so much.

Since it changed hands many times, then it clearly does NOT belong to the arab muslims, as throughout history, it was rarely "theirs."

Second, the UN provided the land to the jews - this was a political issue that the UN had the legal authority to decide with, and did. Deal with it.

 

So what? The few arabs there made no effort to form their own nation, and legally it was under Ottoman rule until the British took it over.

Where is israel "exclusively" jewish, when 20% of the country is not? I don't see the government of israel expelling arabs, the way the arab nations ethnically cleansed themselves of jews from the 1940s, do you?

A better question is why are the 22 arab nations allowed to be arab-only sovereign/majority, crushing all minorities, yet you and some jewhaters here repetitiously focus only on israel?

Sorry but international law says otherwise. And even if that were true, then the sovereign rights of jews there would have to be respected - and the arabs never have, so your argument fails on both accounts.

 

koranimals worked hand in hand with hitler.

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/
http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/antiholo/arabnazi.html

 

Actually the Palestinians resented the Ottoman rule. The Arabs objective was to overthrow the Ottoman rule. There was many revolutionary actions. This created several national parties or societies opposing the empire. For example, The Young Turks party and The Socieyt of Union and Progress just to name a couple. These movements did much to change public opinion for a change in government. In 1908 for example when a group of you officers belonging to this movement launched a coup d'etat to depose of the Sultan Abdul-Hamid. The revolution of the Young Turks on July 24, 1908 with the objective to overthrow the sultan, was achieved. There was the revolutionary poem Tanabbahu Wastafeequ Ayuhal-Arabu. Several secret societies restarted. Such as Al-Ikhaa, Al-Arabi, Al-Muntadal-Adabi and many others. These groups were parts of the Arab world. These fighters were even hung by Jamaal Pasha in Jerusalem, Beirut Damascus etc. They were the martyrs of the Arab world. Some names from Palestine in particular could include the Mufti of Gaza, Palestine, Ahmad Aref Al-Husseini and his son, Selim Bey-Jazairi, Abdul-Kadir Kharsa, Shukri Bey Al-Asali, Abdul-Wahad, Al-Inglizi among many others. Also, like I said the Ottoman Empire administration on Palestine was so weak that the Palestinians had their own local rule. You seem to not understand the concept of private ownership. There were plenty of private owners in the land. Whether or not a central authority has "sovereign control" over all the territory it claims, indeed, over any of the territory it claims.

I wasn't saying "exclusively" Jewish as present day Israel. DutchCyborg or whatever said this:
"It was never Arab or Palestinian land, perhaps you could tell me what Palestinian state existed?[As said by DutchClogCyborg]
So I told him how is the land exclusively Jewish... I think we have the same thinking here. It's Dutch that doesn't. By the way I'd like to mention that the Arab nations who had kicked Jews out of their lands (even though most Jews who left, left voluntarily on their own) asked them to return.

Actually international law does not say that, please tell me where it does. Ungoverned territories are protected under international law, most notably the UN charter. Members of the UN are even supposed to help these territories attain full government. To hold sovereignty over a territory is not always used to refer to states, but sometimes rather the rights of a people. A land that is not terra nullius and has some form of government and/or leadership (whether it be tribal, mayors, etc) are recognized as sovereign.

 

How humorous; an ignorant bigot who possesses an irrational hatred for Muslims is bemoaning the support some Palestinians gave to Hitler.

Incidentally, does your avatar extend to Palestinian Muslims, or is it just aimed at the Palestinian Chrisitans and Jews? You're going to have to be a bit more specific!

 

Koranimals?

What a surprise...another islamophobic bigot arrives on the forum to leave short trolling messages rather than discuss anything.

A pity you wont be here very long. We on the other side try not to bite at this sort of cowardly crap. So youll get bored soon enough.

 

I think the majority of people who blindy support Israel is due to their hatred/fear of Muslims/Islam. I wonder what their stance would be if the Arab world was majoritarily Christain or Buddhist and the same developments concering the Arab/Israeli conflict today occurred in that scenario....

 

I suppose you haven't heard about the Zionist legacy cooperating with the Nazis?

There is some strange history about Zionism. Mussolini set up squadrons of Revisionist Zionist youth movement, called Betar. Menachem Begin became the chief of this group and wore the brown shirt like the hitler gangs. They even greeted one another with the fascist salute... Simon Petilura a Ukranian fascist even committed direct pogroms killing 28,000 Jews in 897 seperate pogroms. Jabotinsky even negotiated with Petilura. So, the Zionists even supported some crazy Jewish murder to help them set up a counter-revolutionairy force against the Red Army.

Now, to the actual Nazis... On June 21, 1933 the Zionist Federation of Germany sent a memorandum of support to the Nazi Party which said "...a rebirth of national life such as is occuring in German life ... must also take place in the Jewish national group. On the foundation of the new Nazi state which has established the principle of race, we wish so to fit our community into the total structure so that for us, too, in the sphere assigned to us, fruitful activity for the Fatherland is possible...". The Zionists even showed their support for the Nazis and Hitler when the World Zionist Organization Congress in 1933 defeated a resolution that would have called for action against Hitler, the vote was 240 to 43! In that congress Hitler himself announced a trade agreement with the World Zionist Organization and the Anglo-Palestine Bank, breaking the Jewish boycott of the Nazi regime at the time the German Economy was terrible. The Zionists became the principal distributor of Nazi goods throughout the Middle East and Northern Europe. They even established the Ha'avara, which was the bank in Palestine designed to receive monies from the German-Jewish bourgeoisie.

The Zionists even brought SS Security Service Baron Von Mildenstein to Palestine for six months in support of Zionism. This even led to a twelve part report done by Joseph Goebbels, in Der Angriff, praising Zionism... The SS Cheif Security Service man Reinhardt Heydrich even wrote an article which he seperated Jews into different categories. Favoring the Zionists. In 1937 the Zionists even sent agent Feivel Polkes to Berlin offering to spy for the SS Security Service, Adolf Eichmann was even invited to Palestine as the guest of the Haganah during that time! They even said that "Jewish nationalist cirlces were very pleased with Radical German Policy, since the strengh of the Jewish population in Palestine would be so far increased thereby the future of Jews could reockon upon numerical superiority over the Arabs".

There is much more about Zionist collaboration with the Nazis as well. It's quite amazing that the Zionists supported the Nazis...

EDIT: I don't really want to get into a big discussion on this Nazi crap though.

 

UN DID NOT provide the land to Jews - non-binding UNGA RES 181 was a Proposed partitioning - and UNGA appointed Envoy Count Bernadotte to arbitrate further negotiation between Zionists + Palestinians . Guess what ,? Zionist terrorists on learning they werent getting as large a slice of the cake they expected , the promptly murdered UN Envoy Count Bernadotte.

Its not for me to deal with - the writing is on the Wailing Wall - sooner or later Israelis will have to l learn to respect Palestinian rights and stop stealing , encroaching on their neighbours land.


No matter how many times the land changed hands over the centuries , the fact remains, the majority inhabitants were non-Jewish Palestinians (Christian+Muslim) before mid-20th century Zionist invasion/influx of Europe's unwanted/rejected flotsam + Jetsam. .

meanwhile GO learn .


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The criminal State of Israel handed Hamas a major victory, and it is impossible for me to see it as anything other than that. So what does Israel feel guilty about, why would they celebrate or anyone who is not a criminal support such a major Hamas victory?

After Beslan if any defined territory of Chechnya had been ruled by elected terrorists, and I had been Putin, they would have renamed me Vlad the Impaler.

 

'Israel', like its Great Model, the Fuhrer, never feels guilty about anything. Its self-righteous evil is yet another indication of how little it is likely to last. I am currently attending a class about the equally evil Assyrian Empire. For more than a millenium, having been overthrown by tis victims, it was properly forgotten, as this racist reichlette will be.

 

And you have definitive proof that these soldiers were not conducting a coup, and represented the vast majority of the few arabs living there? I doubt it.

As long as you cling to that total nonsensical lie that they left voluntarily and not under threat, there is little point in trying to converse with me on it.

 

Sorry spiellgood but what you just said is not even worthy of a reply... You decided to ignore all my facts.

EDIT: And seriously, don't bother trying again. I already know what your "game" or "deal" is. You only reply to pieces that you want to reply to, and you don't even do a good job of it.

 

Too funny, you make huge claims, with long-winded paragraphs from websites you deliberately do not source, then when proof of these claims is requested - you attack the other posters and run away in a huff.

Weak, really weak.