Why arming teachers is better than armed guards:

Guards won't risk their lives against an AR-15.
Teachers are already backed into a corner and have nothing to lose by drawing.


Only arm 75%, the ones who don't look like unhappy future shooters. 20% is too few. Just require the 75% to do 8 hours of paid training per semester.

 

Law enforcement failed on all fronts with the shooter in Florida. All the more reason that private citizens have the right to defend themselves.

 

You can't pay someone to lay down their life for kids they don't know. Only teachers whose life is on the line already or love their students would fight.

 

Taken to extremes, that is armed children.
As a teacher I would be highly annoyed by guns in my classroom.
I have enough to think about with pairs of scissors.

Armed guards and policemen in schools, practical compromise and has worked in some examples. Not to be dismissed just because it hasn't worked in every example.

 

Deleted by author

 

I did not say armed children !!!!

Do not change my proposal because you can't refuse it. Either address the original post or admit I'm right.

I said 75% of teachers (happiest ones), 8hours paid training per semester, willing to fight because they are already backed into a corner.

 

So, the OP's argument is that all security guards are cowards who won't risk their lives. Unless the OP has some links to statistics to back this up, I call it bullshit.

 

I would be ok with some teachers doubling as security personnel in a school, if the school had full time security as well. And the teachers involved were required to be certified and trained as security personel, pass the same background checks, and take annual mental health exams like armed guards have to.

 

"Taken to extremes" that means armed children.
I'm not looking to take things to extremes.

I will beat the living **** out of any teacher who brings a loaded gun into my class, but for the purpose of firearm training. In which case if it is loaded I will still beat the **** out of him.
Load them at the range with them all pointed down range and only when the range is clear.

More guns in schools. Oh god.
Throwing petrol onto the fire.

I get PTSD from students with scissors. Quite nerve racking.
Now I have to keep an eye out for teachers guns too?
No. I don't.
I will discipline you if you make me.

The classroom is a crowd control environment. Kids will misbehave and you can't keep any eye on everything. Not possible.
Kids will get hold of teachers guns. I 100% guarantee that outcome.

 

I like the idea of retired military and police and others with years of experience and a carry permit volunteering their time to guard schools.

Two points:
The best place to stop a shooter is at a locked entrance door to the school, not to a classroom. Teachers have to be in their rooms.

Even though I have an NRA rating as a Basic Pistol Instructor, I have never given anyone extensive firearms instruction. However, I have given a couple of total novices a lesson now and then. Basically, it was the stuff of nightmares. There is no freakin' way I would take a total greenhorn, give them a week or two of classes and put them in a potential life or death situation. Minimum would be the training followed by weekends at the range with at least six different guns, minimum of 100 rounds per session, for a year. A gun is a weapon and it does not react well to mistakes in handling. One does not become Wyatt Earp in a month; you have to live with it and practice with it until your fingers go where they should without you thinking about it, and the barrel is always pointing where it should without you thinking about it, and you are aware of the condition of the gun without you having to check on it.

 

Nah, you are wrong. Stop being such a worry wart.

 

What's to worry about? Children don't matter.

Teachers have no idea about schools.
Let's face it, children are all highly responsible adults.

 

I would not say guards won't risk their lives. But one of the problems with armed guards, especially in uniform, is they carry a neon sign that says, "Shoot me first!" The best security is when a potential perpetrator does not know who or if an armed guard with a concealed weapon is there. Like the marshals that ride airplanes.

 

I think people assume that mass shooters are rational and make careful tactical decisions. I am doubtful that is the case.

 

So the whole "We need armed guards" is undermined by reality

And now we're going to arm the Lunch Lady.

Yea great

How about we deal with the friggin GUNS and keep them out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them

 

As a friend who was a teacher for 28 years told me (I'll paraphrase, we were enjoying drinks) - "It was a good thing I wasn't armed. Most of my kids were great - but there were some I would have happily shot ...".

And I don't think you're going to find over 30% of teachers in the average district who want to be armed.

And as the noted sniper, Chris Kyle said ... oh wait, he can't say anything. Because that highly trained, armed soldier was killed by a crazy guy with a gun. I think this idea that weekend warrior/teachers are going to be the first line of defense against crazy people with guns is a very unrealistic idea.

 

It is in part the case. Most of the mass shooters had notes and plans drawn up.

 

I believe he was shot at one of those "Gun Free Zones"...a gun range

 

Most of them die in the process. I have not heard that the Las Vegas, Orlando, Texas, Sandy Hook of the most recent shooter did in fact have any plan. Perhaps they did although I think they were simply driven by rage.

 

I did not say armed guards are not a good thing. I personally think armed people is the best if not only way to put a dent in this dastardly activity. More gun control will do nothing other than make the gun control zealots happy.

 

Professionals won't do their job but you think teachers will. By the way you can't require teachers to carry firearms.

 

So your solution to the problem is that since we cannot stop school shootings teachers who are "backed into a corner and have nothing to lose" might as well go down shooting? Are you serious?
Why isn't anybody asking to the teachers and their representatives about school safety?
What should happen if the teachers refuse as a group to be armed?

 

A gun in the hands of someone who isn't trained to use it is a very dangerous thing. This can result in teachers shooting the wrong people, missing and killing someone, or a criminal taking their gun and using it. A more common sense solution is to have a locked place to hide guns only accessible to people who are properly trained. Also door barriers to prevent someone from entering is another idea. Maybe we need to find a non-lethal version of a gun to give teachers.

 

We legally can require teachers to carry guns. That is well within constitutional bounds as long as a few small religious sects are excluded. However, it may be best to just have volunteer teachers, that way we can focus more training on them, and the shooters won't know who they are.

If a shooter enters a classroom, it is far better to have a hand gun and be inexperienced than to have no gun. This is obvious. As for non-lethal weapons, which ones can actually take these people down?

I do believe only police and security guards should be allowed to own body armor.

Locking classroom doors sounds like a good idea, through bullet proof walls would be expensive.

I don't believe an angry teacher would ever shoot a kid unless the teach no longer had anything to lose. Hence don't arm all teachers.

A kid can get a exposed gun, but not a concealed one beneath the shirt and up in a teachers chest. A strong teen could if willing to go on full attack. Maybe a thumb print gun, though expensive. Also said teen could get a gun elsewhere.

As for single point security, do you think a fence around the school can actually keep out a physically fit person willing to die, without razor wire, or that they won't go through a window? What if they just shoot up parents and kids together as they get on or off the bus? Armed teachers could intervene.

 

I agree about the locked gun box. One in each classroom, that the teacher can access and that sets off a silent alarm.