Why carry a firearm?

Discussion in 'Firearms and Hunting' started by 557, Jul 7, 2022.

  1. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    In fact I would trust a rattlesnake before I would trust most people at least the ones that I don't know and some of the ones that I do.....

    At least you know what the rattlesnake is and what it can and will do should you decide to mess with it.

    You cannot say the same thing for many humans.
     
  2. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I watched the movie “The Revenant” for the first time the other day. Even though it isn’t historically accurate it accentuates the fact you don’t mess with brown bears!

    It is much better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Absolutely.
     
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  3. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    A semiautomatic 12 gauge with slugs would be my first choice for brown bear. I have no desire to become proficient with the caliber of handgun necessary to deter a brown bear. And no handgun that exists matches the energy of a slug. The only thing better would be a big game rifle, but they have far less ammo capacity and are less controllable than a semiautomatic shotgun.
     
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  4. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    That’s terrible! I can’t even imagine what that would do to the survivors of that tragedy.
     
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  5. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Ripped them apart. Many people aren't aware of it but secondary to affairs, family tragedies are the second leading cause for divorce. It's difficult to live with someone who is a constant reminder of a shared pain. That's why those of us who are survivors of horrific child abuse don't band together as adults. We all know the other person knows exactly what happened to us and it's painful to be reminded of that.


    I would not have reached the point of divorce. I would have instantly dropped dead if all my children died in one day. I almost did die when my ex kidnapped them. I'm strong and resilient but that would be my Kryptonite.

    The aunt I told you about previously that died of COVID in January 2021...she lost her husband at 29, 2nd child was 30, 3rd child was 34 and youngest was 43 (he died of COVID two weeks before she did). Her 2nd child (the one that died at 30) had two kids and my aunt lost one of those grandchildren at 21. She was overseas in a culinary program and died in her dorms. My late aunt is the strongest person I've ever met. She didn't like me for the same reason my mother hates me but I admired her my whole life.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2022
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  6. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We have mountain lions, black bears and according to game wardens only when off-record, wolves. All are rarely seen or encountered, and attacks around here are almost unheard of. While its my great hope that I can live my whole life never needing to use my carry gun, I'll take needing to use it over becoming an almost unheard of statistic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2022
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  7. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I would think from 30 ft in a bear you would probably get a good 15 inches of penetration.
     
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  8. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Those are my sentiments exactly and that is exactly the setup I go with. I have a semi-auto shotgun loaded with 3" Brenneke magnum bear slugs whose sole purpose is to accompany me while in bear country. A large caliber revolver works but I like to think of the realistic circumstances of when I would be needing to draw a weapon and a handgun doesn't cut it for me. You'll be attempting to draw aim and fire off multiple accurate shots at a charging bear within split seconds and unless you hit major vital organs dealing with the nervous system that bear is getting to you before it dies if it's determined enough. Couple that with the stress of the situation and trying to do that with a revolver doesn't work to me.

    I've read all the stories, seen all the stats, talked to hundreds of others around here about it throughout the years and yes bear spray is effective and yes the handguns are successful 97% of the time. There are even well known documented cases of 9mm's successfully stopping grizzlys. But for me? No. I'm not carrying a 9mm as primary defense in grizz country. Talk to a hundred outdoors folks about bear defense and you'll get 100 different opinions. I sleep much more soundly while in the wilderness with my semi-auto shotgun next to me.
     
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  9. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    And the value of two or three good dogs cannot be overstated.
     
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  10. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Absolutely. In fact I'd put the value of a good dog right up there equal to having a reliable large caliber long gun. The common denominator in almost all bear attack cases is surprise. Bears don't actively hunt humans, well unless you are in Polar Bear country. 99% of the time bears don't want anything to do with you and try to avoid people and while trekking through the wilderness the bear knows you are around long before you ever see it. The problem mainly arises when you stumble upon one and spook it or when you get too close to a sow and her cubs unknowingly and she feels the need to get you away. A dog is going to alert you of a bear in the area well before you are likely to notice and will probably wake up before you if a bear stumbles into your camp.
     
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  11. Jarlaxle

    Jarlaxle Banned

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    I'll take a S&W .500 Magnum, the Springfield Sledgehammer. KE from that is on par with a big game rifle.
     
  12. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I used to hike with a guy who kept a .380 pistol for protection from people and a huge Airedale terrier for protection from bears.
     
  13. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Have you ever shot a S&W 500 magnum?
     
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  14. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    The .500 with top performing ammo produces about 3000 ft.lb. of energy. A 30.06 is the very low end of big game cartridges and it’s right at 3000 ft.lbs. energy as well. A .300 Win Mag has 4000 ft.lbs energy. A 450 grain projectile in a .458 Lott has about 5000 ft.lbs. energy.

    12 gauge slugs can produce 3300 ft.lbs. energy. Plus you have 8-9 rounds in a good semiautomatic shotgun and much easier reload than big game rifles or revolvers. Plus the shotgun can be used to take any other game in the woods with just an ammo change in survival or food gathering situations. You aren’t going to eat a rabbit taken with the .500 s&w. :)

    I think a large bore revolver is a fine anti bear tool if one is proficient. I’d rather shoot slugs out of my M4 than try and become proficient with a .500 s&w revolver. I have to milk cows twice a day. That might be a problem after 25 rounds of .500 s&w. LOL
     
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  15. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    Wherever you go, there you are. Wherever you bring a firearm, there is a firearm. Who gets to use it is not so certain. Reasonableness dictates that carrying is rarely prudent when one is prudent about where one goes.
    Looking for trouble usually succeeds, eventually.
     
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  16. Jarlaxle

    Jarlaxle Banned

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    Yes, my uncle has one.
     
  17. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Not a bad setup. The reality is even in the wilderness humans are the most dangerous thing to other humans. The best protection I had at my disposal many years ago was my little hell spawned weenie dog that would chase off ANYTHING. Animal habits are weird like that, even though a bear the size of my truck could kill pretty much any domestic dog with one swipe they tend to freak out and take off running even if a little 15lb yapping sausage is chasing them away lol. I guess they are just confused and get spooked by unknown creatures not native to their habitat and don't know what to do so they run.

    Thats why while out in the wilderness I still carry my EDC 9mm. The semi-auto shotgun is only for that 1% chance that I run into a pissed off grizzly bear who decides it isn't taking no crap from me that day. The 9mm is for the way more common scenario of me running into a weirdo out there.
     
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  18. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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  19. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    There isn't a whole lot that you can put a 12 gauge slug into it's not going to trouble you after a decently placed shot
     
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  20. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    That's why you keep it concealed for the element of surprise.
    It doesn't matter where you go you have a right to defend yourself.

    Though I do agree that keeping yourself out of a bad situation to begin with is your first best defense.
     
  21. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've seen housecats chase away elk before. I think animals have predator-prey programming that is sometimes difficult for them to override.

    But then again, there's also videos of rabbits trying to kill snakes and cats saving children from dogs... so maybe nature is just funny.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2022
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  22. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    I can imagine the bears sitting around and talking later: "Why did we run Hal? I have no idea Bob!!! That little thing scared the crap out of me!"
     
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  23. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Look at how some people react to bees or spiders.
     
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  24. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well I've run from small yappy dogs before too. Not because I thought it was a real threat, but because I knew the only options were get bit or severely injure it, and I didn't want to injure it. I doubt those bears were worried about injuring a dog. Their instincts just said 'this doesn't act like prey, therefore it must be predator.' I spect anway...
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2022
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  25. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I figure one o those AK 'pistols' might be a decent bear defense weapon. Not as heavy or cumbersome as a rifle or shotgun. Might actually be the only thing one of those is really good for at all. It'll have most of the energy and penetration of a full rifle, but only at close range, plenty of ammo, and plenty of control if you two-hand it.
     
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