Why do NeoAtheists deny the practice of atheism is a religion?<<MOD WARNING>>

yeh observer physics, said that in my initial post umpteen posts ago

 

I did, when I was a kid, in fact I did 10 rounds with him, its a metaphor, jargon whatever

 

Observer doesn't matter. This is about inertial frameworks, not conscious observers. You can keep repeating yourself, but you will just multiply how many times you are wrong.

Look, if you seriously think that you have some sort of proof that these forces slow down all clocks, regardless of mechanism, including slowing down ATOMIC DECAY ITSELF without any kind of time dilation, and you have some explanation for how Einstein's observations about the constance of the speed of light in a vacuum regardless of inertial framework leading to mathematically-predicted time dilation are WRONG, then please produce it. You will revolutionize all of physics. You will prove every modern physicist wrong. You will easily, EASILY win the Nobel Prize in physics and your name will go down in history. I'd love to be part of that moment. So, by all means, pony up.

 

I doubt it. Even if you did, your memory is failing you and there is probably reason why you've never spoken to another physicist on this subject since. But let me know when you land that Nobel Prize. I'll send you a card or something.

 

I gave you a link, to a light based clock, far more accurate than an atomic clock however BOTH are mechanical devices, ALL I repeat ALL mechanical devices are affected by gravity.

Hence all clock devices will give you the wrong time dependent on the medium they are subjected to.

 

I did not say human.

 

You ignored everything I actually posted. Care to address it? I'll try again: how does gravity, absent time dilation, slow down atomic decay itself? I'll go ahead and prep the "dodged noted" post now, since it is inevitable at this point.

 

Neither did I.

 

decay rate can be slower on a clock that is moving with respect to the isotope

It is a mechanical device, please think about that.

 

Absent time dilation, how so? You are still dodging.

 

No I'm doubting a claim. And really all you have to support your claim is semantics.

 

the difference in speed is the result of MECHANICAL deficiencies that show up when subject to the medium, stop trying to stack the deck.

 

I'm asking you a simple question: what physical force, absent time dilation, explains how and why atomic decay (which is how atomic clocks track time) would slow down? Why are you still dodging? This is the most basic question anyone could possibly ask you about your account . . . which, again, completely revolutionizes all of physics if it is true. If you want to revolutionize all of physics, the least you could do is be willing and able to answer basic questions about your explanation. Einstein was willing to answer such questions, as have ALL PHYSICISTS. You refuse. Wonder why.

Ah, I see, any kind of critical examination is "stacking the deck" against . . . well, a philosophy that has no grounding in any kind of critical examination.

 

And your point is: sacrificing the innocent for the sake of the guilty is scientifically, objectively, and rationally necessary for human existence?
Hmmm? I think not.

 

define how you are using time dilation and why you think it should be absent to answer your question. I believe I sufficiently answered your question.

yeh like you claimed that I refuse to post my definition of religion when I search I get 15 hits, the same definition posted 15 times. Seems the problems are yours not mine.

 

It should be absent because you claim it doesn't exist, so you should be able to explain this phenomenon without. Which you have failed to do.

You are wrong. I've asked for your explanation for why atomic decay would slow down, and you have refused to produce an explanation. The fact is that several different types of clocks have been used to measure relativity. They all produce a time difference. You blame the mechanism for slowing down due to gravity but you have refused to produced the physics behinds such a slow down, outside the time dilation that you reject, despite the fact that multiple, independent mechanisms would have to all slow down at the same rate and that this collection of mechanisms would include atomic decay itself.

Secondly, you still haven't addressed the fact that basic mathematics predicts the same sort of time dilation that we objectively observe.

Then quote the definition that precludes baseball fandom and includes atheism. I've asked multiple times and you have refused to answer every time.

 

ah...ok so lets start by establishing your position more clearly.

So you are claiming that all the time measuring devices (clocks) used to measure time are 100% accurate under any and all conditions; yes___ no___

If satanism and secular humanism can be set up as a religion why not baseball?

 

74 pages now, and religion remains as it did on page one, by definition, not a religion. Just like not playing baseball isn’t a sport.

Also, time is relative and not constant.

 

That was Old Testament Judaism, and only applied to fellow Jews.

Nothing in what Paul had to say can be construed as supporting a forced conversion, either.

Destruction of libraries by Muslims through the centuries:

Library of al-Hakam II Córdoba Al-Andalus 976 Al-Mansur Ibn Abi Aamir & religious scholars All books consisting of "ancient science" were destroyed in a surge of ultra-orthodoxy.[11][12]

Library of Rayy Rayy Buyid Emirate 1029 Sultan Mahmud of Ghazni Burned the library and all books deemed as heretical.[13]

Library of Avicenna Isfahan Kakuyid Emirate 1034 Sultan Mas'ud I After conquering the city of Isfahan, the library of Avicenna was destroyed.[14]

Library of Ghazna Ghazna Ghurid empire 1151 'Ala al-Din Husayn City was sacked and burned for seven days. Libraries and palaces built by the Ghaznavids were destroyed.[16]

Library of Nishapur Nishapur Seljuk Empire 1154 Oghuz Turks City partially destroyed, libraries sacked and burned.[17]

Nalanda Nalanda India 1193 Bakhtiyar Khilji Nalanda University complex (the most renowned repository of Buddhist knowledge in the world at the time) was sacked by Turkic Muslim invaders under the perpetrator; this event is seen as a milestone in the decline of Buddhism in India.[18]

Libraries of Constantinople Constantinople Byzantine Empire 1453 Ottoman Turks After the Fall of Constantinople, hundreds upon thousands of manuscripts were removed, sold, or destroyed from Constantinople's libraries.[21]

Bibliotheca Corviniana Buda Hungary 1526 Ottoman Turks Library was destroyed by Ottomans in the Battle of Mohács.[23]

Saeh Library Tripoli Lebanon 2014-01-03 Unknown The Christian library was burned down, it contained over 80,000 manuscripts and books.[57][58][59][60]

And just for the sake of completeness of the hostility of Islam to knowledge:

Pol-i-Khomri Public Library Pol-i-Khomri Afghanistan 1998 Taliban militia It held 55,000 books and old manuscripts.[44]



Egyptian Scientific Institute Cairo Egypt 2011-12-?? Aftermath of street clashes during the Egyptian revolution A first estimate says that only 30,000 volumes have been saved of a total of 200,000.[51]


Ahmed Baba Institute (Timbuktu library) Timbuktu Mali 2013-01-28 Islamist militias Before the library was burned down, it contained over 20,000 manuscripts with only a fraction of them having been scanned as of January 2013. Before and during the occupation, more than 300,000 Timbuktu Manuscripts from the Institute and from private libraries were saved and moved to more secure locations.[52][53][54]

National Archives of Bosnia and Herzegovina (partially) Sarajevo Bosnia and Herzegovina 2014-02-07 Seven Bosnian rioters suspected of having started the fire; two (Salem Hatibović and Nihad Trnka)[61] were arrested.[62]
In the repositories that were burnt, about 60 percent of the material was lost, according to estimates by Šaban Zahirović, the head of the Archives.[65]

Mosul University libraries and private libraries Mosul Iraq 2014-12-?? Ongoing ISIL book burning Book burning.[66]

Libraries in Al Anbar Governorate Al Anbar Governorate Iraq 2014-12-?? Ongoing ISIL book burning Book burning.[66]

Mosul public library (Central Public Library in Ninawa) Mosul Iraq 2015-02-?? ISIL book burning 8,000 rare old books and manuscripts. Manuscripts from the 18th century, Syriac books printed in Iraq's first printing house in the 19th century, books from the Ottoman era, Iraqi newspapers from the early 20th century.[68]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_destroyed_libraries#Human_action

Much of the knowledge that was saved by Muslims from the Greek & Roman world was done so by people later declared heretics by the Muslim officialdom, and their works burned and condemned. Very little of that knowledge made it to Europe. Most of the Greek & Roman knowledge rediscovered during the Enlightenment came from European sources, not Arab ones.

Again, Old Testament, and only applied to the Jews. Non-Jewish slaves were exempt from those laws and were not expected to worship the Jewish God. When Jesus and Paul came along, the law was thrown out and replaced by grace.

"The Protestant reformers, especially Anabaptists and Calvinists, would make a significant contribution to the growth of religious freedom. Free church Anabaptists, like the Swiss Brethren and the Mennonites, opposed all coercion in matters of religion, implying a radical separation of church and state. They were mercilessly persecuted but their views had influence, particularly in seventeenth century Holland and England. Neither Luther nor Calvin went nearly as far as the Anabaptists. The two reformers believed that uniform religion helped secure civic order, and therefore they supported severe limits on the freedom of conscience. Still, Luther’s was a message of spiritual liberation: Ordinary people should throw off old beliefs and take up new ones. Once familiar religious beliefs were successfully challenged, it was not difficult for others to emerge.

That was even truer of Calvin. Legally educated, he embraced and enlarged upon Conciliarist themes, particularly constitutional reform of church and state, with a special place for natural rights, including the freedom of conscience. Christian liberty was not just the right to believe without interference, as with Luther, but also the right so to organize. Christians must be permitted to restructure churches and in some cases states in accord with the separation of powers, the importance of popular participation, and the independence of church from state control."

https://berkleycenter.georgetown.ed...-freedom-in-the-early-modern-period-1454-1750

Can I hear three cheers for Protestant Christianity and its importance to the notion of freedom of religion?

Again, you're confusing the Catholic Church with Christianity. They are not one and the same.

You were blaming the Christians for the Dark Ages, when the real cause of the Dark Ages were the barbarians outside the realm and not the Christians within the realm. Was the Catholic Church horrible, repressive, and violent? Yes, it was. Was it responsible for the Dark Ages? No, it wasn't.

You seem to forget, too, that the beginning of the Enlightenment corresponded almost exactly with the three great events of 1492: the discovery of the new world, the expulsion of the Muslims from Spain, and the second defeat of the Muslims at the gates of Vienna. With these events began a new period of peace and prosperity for Europe the likes of which had never been known before, not even at the height of the Roman empire. Combined with the new Biblical humanism spawned by the Protestant Reformation, the printing press, and the rediscovery of the ancient Greek and Latin texts, the Enlightenment had room to grow.

 

Straw man. Try addressing my post if you are going to ask additional questions. As a reminder, you are still stuck having to explain how gravity slows down ALL mechanisms . . . literally ALL of them . . . including atomic decay itself, without any kind of time dilation. You are still dodging that and the observation that basic physical mathematics predicts time dilation while creating this fake argument. No one is saying that a quartz clock works perfectly when you remove the crystal, etc. No one is claiming, as you are positing here, that there is no way to break any clock, nor does that actually have anything to do with the discussion.

Thank you for admitting that you are stretching the definition of religion so broadly that it includes even baseball, thereby rendering it virtually meaningless. As has been pointed out several times. And dodged every time.

 

So before I get rolling here, on all those nasty things you said to me, its pretty clear you are one of those people who think time curves back on itself and that its possible to time travel and nothing can go faster than the speed of light right? Oh yeh and that space is really warped? ...and then why are you using imperfect measuring devices as scientific gospel?

 

Has the Nobel prize committee contacted you yet for your Nobel prize? I would think the man who disproved physics would have gotten the call by now

 

Time and space do warp, yes. That's what we were talking about. As far as the possibility of time travel goes, I have no idea. Nothing faster than the speed of light? Maybe, maybe not. The speed of light is the speed of causality. Imperfect device? What are you talking about? All devices are imperfect, and I'm not relying solely on "imperfect measuring devices" as I've already explained and you continue to dodge.

 

well then since magnetism acts upon an object precisely the same way gravity acts upon an object then clearly a magnet also warps time and space.

Wait you are using an imperfect device to tell us time is not perfect?

Causality? Yeh a violation of is where we toss the physics bible you are using in the dumpster.

Any scientist worth his salt will tell you that you need first and foremost accurate measurement equipment, and you do not have the means in this day in age to state factually that no outside interference can affect your measuring device.

Warping space et al is nothing more than a conceptual thought process to help you understand what is happening, as I said umpteen posts ago observer physics. You admitted that your measurement devices are not accurate, yet you insist time itself changes, it does not