Why I like Motorcycles

Having owned a 1976 Bonnyville { worst bike I ever owned } I have a question.
Since you think yer so smart,answer me this mr.{ Iron head } as in The Sportster
Iron 883.
Why does the smaller sportster { the 883 } weigh more than the 1200 Sportster ?

 

Trick question? Both are basically identical except for the bore and typically weigh between about 550 and 590 lbs. depending on typical accessories to my knowledge. Perhaps you know something I don't?

I've never owned an 883 although I've ridden them and fundamentally they're no different than the 1200 IMO. The 1200 has more power but I've never really used it except for brief moments with my XL50. I do like my dual gauges (tach and speedo) that are typically a special order but came standard on mine.

 

The reason for the smaller 883 weighing more is that *piston sleeves were inserted
into the 1200 sportster engines reducing the bore.Same exact engine in both,except
for the sleeves in the Iron 883.
The sleeve gives the 1200 engine a smaller bore,but it's the same engine.
* or combustion chambers.

 

Ignoring the typo it makes sense that an 883 would weigh very slightly more than the 1200 because of the difference in weight of the sleeves. It wouldn't be a noticeable difference of course but it could add several ounces to the weight if all other factors were the same.

 

Not necessarily so.Take for example the Honda VTX.When it premiered Honda was
bragging of course it was the Biggest displacement mass produced V-twin
available.But mags like Motor Cyclist {June 2001 } featured the bike and
showed pics of what the engine entailed.Like the VTX crankshaft.The most
massive Honda ever plopped into a motorcycle.
It was explained that a special apparatus had to be made to allow
assembly-line workers to hoist the 41 pound crankshaft.The VTX is a very heavy bike.
That is why it was about the best straight-line motorcycle I ever owned.
In a straight line the bike was awesome.However the Rune cannot be topped in that
area.
I need to find out from my Harley buddy { He's the one who explained how
and why the Sportster 883 is heavier than the 1200 model } how the piston would
be able to operate with an additional sleeve inserted.Did they shave off the sides
of the piston and have them polished.

 

Pistons are "rotating mass" in the engine and are typically kept as light as reasonably possible because of the acceleration of mass energy required for them to reverse direction thousands of times a minute. A heavier piston literally robs energy from the engine so the pistons would be unique for each engine. The barrels and sleeves, even though weighing more, have nothing to do with energy (bhp) produced by the engine but "rotating mass" does.

 

Not sure where you're going.
If a sleeve is inserted into the piston chamber it reduces the size or the bore.
The entire point of why Harley uses a sleeve in the 883.
However ... how can the same piston be used if the inside of the piston chamber
has been made smaller in bore.Would not the piston no longer fit.The sleeve would
keep the piston from moving inside the chamber.Because the fit is now too tight.
Smaller piston chamber due to adding a sleeve means a different dimension
piston { smaller bore than the original 1200 } would be necessary.
N'cest pas.

 

My favorite type of motorcycle is the dual sport. I love spotting a trail from the road and just taking it. I miss my KLR-650. I have taken it places that not even Humvees or professional grade hill climbing Jeeps can go. I had to sell it when I needed money for something. D:

 

The 883 and 1200 can use the same basic sleeve where the 883 is machined to a smaller ID and the 1200 machined to a larger ID. Wall thickness of the sleeve doesn't affect the performance of the engine.

The pistons are different though because "wall thickness" does matter. In theory they could use the same forging and simply machine the 883 to a smaller diameter than the 1200 but that would create excessive wall thickness on the 1200 piston that would require substantial additional energy to move the mass of the piston up and down thousands of times a minute. The internal ID of the forged piston ID is larger for the 1200 than the 883 to reduce mass. The inside of a piston is not machined. Only the OD is machined to remove metal.

The advantage for the OD of the sleeves to be common is that they will both fit in the same barrels while a different displacement is obtained based upon the different ID's of the piston sleeves for the 883 and 1200.

Pistons don't have that commonality and there is a huge weight penalty and energy loss that would occur if commonality of the piston forgings was attempted so the pistons are each made from different forgings. They do use the same rods and crank though if I understand correctly as stoke is identical for both engines.

 

Simply answer the question.Do the 883 and 1200 share the exact same piston
or has the 883 piston been modified to accommodate the sleeve added to the 883.
Keeping in mind that the 1200 engine has No sleeve.
Frankly I don't know the answer.That is why I ask.

 

No, to my knowledge they are completely different forgings.

The 1200 is a sleeved engine. Aluminum barrels (that were introduced with the Evolution engine) must have steel sleeves.

 

Yer a typical impossible contrarian.You are incapable of simply answering a direct question.
Which is exactly how Dimocrats operate.
There is no reason for the Sporster 1200 to have any sleeve added to it's
combustion chamber.Why would there be.The 883 on the other hand needed to
be modified from it's original parent engine { the 1200 } by adding a sleeve to
reduce the bore.Yes,I'm fully aware the stroke is the exact same for both engines.
But the cylinder volumn of the 2 identical { everything but the bore } bikes cannot
be identical.Plus the compression ratio for each bike is different.The 1200 is higher.
You aren't even addressing that concern.

 

All aluminum engines use steel sleeves. The steel rings on the piston that provide a seal between the piston and the bore would literally destroy an aluminum bore in a matter of seconds.

Cast iron engine bores don't require sleeves because the case iron is hard enough to withstand the steel piston rings but even as hard as cast iron is there is still wear because of the contact with the piston rings. The only engines that don't really experience wear in the bore are those with steel sleeves that are of identical hardness with the piston rings.

 

All aluminum engines use steel sleeves. Without the hard steel cylinder bore the steel rings on the pistons would destroy the soft aluminum of the block (barrels) of the engine in a matter of minutes.

In the following cut-away image the sleeves on the Sportster engine can be seen. The aluminum where it is cut-away is shown in red and the steel sleeves are shown in gray-tone.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...&sigi=11os17j8p&sigb=12htenubl&fr=yfp-t-900-s

 

Which is ironic because even though the " evolution " engine of the mid 80's
and 90's used both aluminum heads and bottom end,why on earth did Harley
keep referring to the Sportster 883 as Iron.
Plus it was rigid mounted till the mid 2000's.Actually rigid mounted is better.
But that all depends on the engine.An Engine like the Goldwing 1800 is
so smooth,that vibration is not an issue if when rigid mounted.
Plus Harley " Evo's " were fairly notorious for being leakers even though
the new design aluminum engines were thought to be more temperature
friendly then say the " Panhead " which used an aluminum head and
cast iron block.I don't buy yer analysis of Aluminum engines needing sleeves.
Does Patrick Racing which cuts it's engine block out of a single chuck of
billet aluminum use sleeves.?

 

You guy's know about the Hydrogen Powered Harley that has already been built and tested and now they are trying to set up the massive Marketing Campaign to go along with it right?

This Harley is BEAUTIFUL and has an on board both Passive and Active Multi-Ban Radar and Radar Directed Laser Warning Light System as it is not noisy and as all true Bikers know a LOUD BIKE IS A SAFE BIKE....as when those pipes are barking it allows people driving cars and trucks to hear us as now days with every ass dialing and texting without looking at the road.

So when a vehicle is approaching this Harley at any direction where the on board computer determines that a possible impact or accident may occur as the Harley's Radar System is tracking everything moving near it....if the computer calculates a specific percentage that an accident cold happen the computer directs Lasers to target any vehicles windshield, door windows and even can reflect a beam off a side or rear view mirror as the computer has stored every possible vehicles construction as well as can use both active radar and laser tracking to determine any modifications be it larger tires or rims that make the car or trucks height different or even takes into account any object blocking a Laser Alert Warning Beam such as a persons head or even a air freshener hanging from the rear view mirror......and then sends a beam that widens and turns a section of a drivers windshield or side window or etc.....into a flashing red color or other color and puts words on it that say BREAK NOW ACCIDENT EMINENT!

Newer more expensive cars will receive such a beam as well can this Harley that force the cars computer to both turn the wheel and auto brake without human assistance faster than human thought processes.

The BEST part of this bike is how COMFORTABLE it is as I was allowed to sit on one with a Show Girl at the Worlds Largest Casino.

It is like sitting in ones FAVORITE ASS GROVE IN A PERFECTLY WORN IN COACH!!!!

The engine design is both futuristic as well as made in a way to look like a sculpture.

I want one!!!!

AboveAlpha

 

We actually refer to the pre-EVO Sportsters as "Iron Heads" and not as "Iron" Sportsters and the recently introduced "Iron 883" model is a reference to "American Iron" (i.e. an American manufactured motorcycle) and it is not a reference to the barrels. It is a model name and nothing more.

 

Which makes it even more dopey.Yes Willie G does have many a dopey
idea flooding his non-metric brain.Like his obsession over rake.The new Harley line
introduced in the 2000's had to have a certain degree rake.I'm thinkin' 34 degree.
But then a Motorcycle manufacturer hellbent on naming it's models
Fat Bob and Fat Boy and Switchback and Breakout ... sounds like Movie Titles.
And yes " Iron 883 " not Ironhead 883.
But then I wouldn't expect a contrarian and a Contrarian Harley head to even admit
err.It comes with the mindset.And the Bike.That is the only thing free about being
a harleyhead.The attitude.Admit ... you got one.
Which perfectly illustrates me point.

 

Model names are model names and nothing more. In truth most avid Harley owners refer to the model number (e.g. I own an XL50) as opposed to the model name and model numbers will often change even though the model name may not.

 

It is actually more about the Harley "lifestyle" based upon the social network created by Harley Davidson. Harley is the only manufacturer/distributor in the motorcycle industry that sponsors a world-wide owners group. A Harley owner can literally go to any country with a Harley dealership and they are "not alone" but instead are connected by the H.O.G. (Harley Owners Group) network. Harley owners are the only motorcycle owners that I'm aware of that routinely plan to stop at (Harley) dealerships when touring. We'll routinely stop to have a cup of coffee and discuss local riding with the people at the dealership. We also tend to pick up Harley tee shirts as a souvenir of our trip. I don't see Honda or Ducati owners doing this although some might.

The Harley motorcycles are excellent machines based upon their designs for different applications but it's really the social network of Harley owners that trumps all other motorcycle manufacturers.

 

Complete total crock.My Harley buddie will not do business at the newer
Harley dealership who moved 10 years ago from our neighborhood.That
Harley owner was literally hated by anyone who did business there.
I bought a few items there but knew how that Harley Dealer owner treated
those at his old dealership.He had a notorious reputation.He moved into
the big city { Louisville } and built a really nice big Dealership.But he still
used a few of his regular employees and he himself was just as bad.
My Buddy did buy a new Harley there,knowing that the owner was a real prick
when back at his old dealership.He kept that bike { '06 Road King } and
modified it nicely and then traded-in for a Fat Bob about 3 years ago adding
a 113" big bore kit.He refused to go back and deal at the newer dealer.
because of the still lingering reputation of that Dealer/owner.
He decided to use the older Harley dealership in downtown Louisville.
So ... You are Wrong.That Harley owners are One Big Happy Family.

 

I don't recall saying that there were no bad apples in the barrel. I know families where not everyone gets along but they're still families even it one is a rotten egg.

The fact remains that the HOG network is the largest single "social group" in the motorcycle world and no one can dispute that fact.

 

So then you admit that having/owning a Harley is probably more psychological.
Because of their Herd Groupthink.Like a Harley clique.Like going to Yale
and joining - Skull & Bones -. Becoming a Freemason.
Being a Treky { Star Trek }.
That reason alone would make me feel like puking.Totally devoid of Individualism.
Or Creativity for that matter.Like joining a Romance Book of the Month club.
Not just a Book of the Month club.But the Romance club.
Being a follower.
" Nothing that is worth knowing can be taught.Anybody can make history.
Only a great man can write it."
- Oscar Wilde

Yer logic is like getting a tattoo.A Tattoo is never gonna make one smarter,
or have a better personality,disposition.
Same with belonging to some Motorcycle clique.In fact,I doubt the term
{ One percenter } is used for flattery.Even though I have partied at a bar
where Hells Angels would come in on occasion.

 

BMW uses an unsleeved aluminum block with an antiwear coating in some of their cars.

 

What in the WORLD are you babbling about?! Are you hammered?